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Singing and playing...HELP!
- Thread starter Swampish
- Start date
Geddy does it the easy way. 90% of the time the vocal melody and the bassline are very similar, usually in rhythm and often in harmony too. Sing it to yourself and think about the bassline:
"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice..."
"What you say about his company is what you say about society..."
"Living in the limelight, the universal dream, for those who wish to see..."
"Big money goes around the world..."
It's harder to do what Mark King did, IMO, where his basslines and what he was singing were often completely contrapuntal. Check out this live recording of "Eyes Waterfalling" where he kills a frenetic bassline and sings a fairly laid-back vocal at the same time.
"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice..."
"What you say about his company is what you say about society..."
"Living in the limelight, the universal dream, for those who wish to see..."
"Big money goes around the world..."
It's harder to do what Mark King did, IMO, where his basslines and what he was singing were often completely contrapuntal. Check out this live recording of "Eyes Waterfalling" where he kills a frenetic bassline and sings a fairly laid-back vocal at the same time.
I was thinking about Geddy and the bass line for Tom Sawyer. The bit right before "What you say" vs. the bit during it, the latter of which is much simplified, and maps onto the rhythm of the vocals nicely. If it's good enough for Geddy ...
I find it more difficult to play fingerstyle and sing at the same time. It may be that there's more going on mechanically. If I use a pick it seems to be so much easier.
I'd mentioned in another thread how I use Spacehog's "In the meantime" as a practice song. The bass line is relatively syncopated against the melody, so it's rubbing the belly and patting the head time.
I'd mentioned in another thread how I use Spacehog's "In the meantime" as a practice song. The bass line is relatively syncopated against the melody, so it's rubbing the belly and patting the head time.
There are a lot of replies, so I'm not sure if this was covered/suggested:
- For me personally, and from what I've read, when you play an instrument and sing, you need to do one of these without thinking. It has to be automatic - muscle memory. Call it what you want.
- Start by talking through the lyrics while playing bass (no singing, only talking). Focus only on matching the rhythm. Do this until you can play and talk with the fewest mistakes.
- Once you can talk while playing, sing the parts that are easier and talk through the difficult parts.
- When you have this down, practice singing and playing.
If you know what you're playing and can play it in your sleep, singing on top of it is much easier.
That said, I still can't play fingerstyle and sing. Some sort of mental block and a lot of the reason I play with a pick. For songs I don't know how to play all that well, I'll pick the transition points from one note to the other and align the vocals with those note transitions. Don't necessarily emphasize the vocals or the notes at those transition points. Just use them as a reference for where you should be, vocally.
That said, I still can't play fingerstyle and sing. Some sort of mental block and a lot of the reason I play with a pick. For songs I don't know how to play all that well, I'll pick the transition points from one note to the other and align the vocals with those note transitions. Don't necessarily emphasize the vocals or the notes at those transition points. Just use them as a reference for where you should be, vocally.
I've always done a lot of the lead vocals as well and for me two things have helped.....besides practice, practice, practice.
1) I commit the bass line to my subconscious. Then it's basically on "autopilot" so I can focus on my vocals and phrasing or harmonies when singing a backup part.
2) Simplify the line a bit without losing the basic feel or timing whenever needed. It's the vocals the crowd will notice more than anything so get them right. As long as you can execute a fitting bass line and keep the groove intact note for note accuracy isn't a big deal. Just don't mess with the basic groove too much.
There are probably a handful of other tricks I use when needed as well but essentially it's kinda like the rub your tummy while patting your head thing or repeating a tongue twister. I've worked out ways to do it and some are even song specific like singing lead vocals over the bass line to "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" and others where there's a ton of syncopation. Those are always the most challenging ones.
I really love red Mitchell. Off the the most lyrical bassists ever. I bought one record of his called “when I’m singing.” Unfortunately he actually does sing on the record and is a pretty horrible singer lol!
When I listened to cream in high school I always thought it was a four piece band.
well...if you have to practice..practice..practice..then it isnt in you..yes..its an ability..and practice can help..and it depends on what you are trying to accomplish within the music realm..lipstick on a pig doesnt work in a lot of cases..a person either has a vocal ability..or not..I was a vocalist before I was a bass player..and I can really belt out a song..but I was singing at an early age..first at home along with the radio..then in the church choir..and later in a band doing motown songs..but I do know people who cant sing a lick..they are usually good talkers..but thats about it..leave the vocals to vocalists..
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To me the choruses are the hardest to sing, even worse is to sing choruses while playing bass.
Fortunately the other two guys both sing, and I've been singing harmonies in the shower for many years, so I decided to help out and sing a few and get better at background and harmonies. Harmonies seemed easy; heck, someone else has to remember the words, so they control the vocal timing, but hitting the right note wasn't always easy. We pull off 3-part harmony regularly, like in almost half our songs.
So for backgrounds and leads at 62 I took some singing lessons; why not?! Now I also sing lead for 5 or 6 songs a night. Whoda thunkit?!
What really helped was a bit of advice from my music teacher.
First, harmony is singing the song just like the lead is, but different than yours, and the lead already knows exactly what each note is that they are singing; do the exact same thing for the harmony part, winging it doesn't work.
Second, for lead, the bass is playing notes. Singing is singing notes. Notes is notes; you have to know what notes you are singing just like you have to know what notes to play on the fretboard. Go through the song syllable by syllable and know what your notes are exactly, and then where each one fits into the beat.
And you already know where the bass fits into the beat. Like "OK, the lyric word "Are" starts an eighth note AFTER I play the C; the C is on One, and "Are" is delayed until the And." OR on a long "Baaaaaby", the bass goes from C to A on the half beat after "Baaaaby" starts. After a while it's just like you're playing both your bass and your voice, not any different really than any grace notes or adding a 5th or an octave while holding a note, and it becomes a new rhythm. This was a big help to begin with.
Next: Sing the vowels, the consonants will just happen on their own. Huge benefit knowing that tidbit!
Lastly, the tough part for me is where the singing begins BEFORE the One count; it actually starts at the end of the previous measure, like during the 12th bar in a blues progression, on the four or perhaps the three and a half or whatever. As you all know, the bass also does this a lot, like at the beginning of the song (that little roll down at the beginning of Long Train Running at the end of the guitar intro, for example,) so you already know how to do that, but using your mouth instead of your fingers makes it harder at first, but it's the same thing! Play/Sing it as a part of the 12th bar, not the oncoming 1st. Count it off at the previous One if you have to.
Anyway, I'm still not nearly there as I'd like to be, but using some of these techniques and all the other suggestions I see here, I know it's pretty good now, and will be getting better.
Oh, and then comes confidence; once that starts, it's a really cool feeling and you make a big leap.
So for backgrounds and leads at 62 I took some singing lessons; why not?! Now I also sing lead for 5 or 6 songs a night. Whoda thunkit?!
What really helped was a bit of advice from my music teacher.
First, harmony is singing the song just like the lead is, but different than yours, and the lead already knows exactly what each note is that they are singing; do the exact same thing for the harmony part, winging it doesn't work.
Second, for lead, the bass is playing notes. Singing is singing notes. Notes is notes; you have to know what notes you are singing just like you have to know what notes to play on the fretboard. Go through the song syllable by syllable and know what your notes are exactly, and then where each one fits into the beat.
And you already know where the bass fits into the beat. Like "OK, the lyric word "Are" starts an eighth note AFTER I play the C; the C is on One, and "Are" is delayed until the And." OR on a long "Baaaaaby", the bass goes from C to A on the half beat after "Baaaaby" starts. After a while it's just like you're playing both your bass and your voice, not any different really than any grace notes or adding a 5th or an octave while holding a note, and it becomes a new rhythm. This was a big help to begin with.
Next: Sing the vowels, the consonants will just happen on their own. Huge benefit knowing that tidbit!
Lastly, the tough part for me is where the singing begins BEFORE the One count; it actually starts at the end of the previous measure, like during the 12th bar in a blues progression, on the four or perhaps the three and a half or whatever. As you all know, the bass also does this a lot, like at the beginning of the song (that little roll down at the beginning of Long Train Running at the end of the guitar intro, for example,) so you already know how to do that, but using your mouth instead of your fingers makes it harder at first, but it's the same thing! Play/Sing it as a part of the 12th bar, not the oncoming 1st. Count it off at the previous One if you have to.
Anyway, I'm still not nearly there as I'd like to be, but using some of these techniques and all the other suggestions I see here, I know it's pretty good now, and will be getting better.
Oh, and then comes confidence; once that starts, it's a really cool feeling and you make a big leap.
