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Single Coil Hum
- Thread starter Collin Bass
- Start date
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,002
- 1
- 31,693
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Like most articles aimed at the masses, this one is full of generalizations that are by no means universally true.
Also, it’s aimed at guitarists and not bassists.
First off, the hum doesn't bother me but I know that we are all different.
Playing with a band, it's not even going to be noticed.
Finally, I cut the high down a "tad" with the tone control and can't even hear it anymore.
(But some bassist like crisp high end sounding bass guitar and yes, the 60 cycle hum will be annoying.)
Single coil hum is the price to be paid for a great sounding pickup as in the '51 to '56 Ps.
As already mentioned, the Fralin dual coil (and there are others) is a way to avoid the hum but then the pickup becomes a humbucker and the original sound is changed.
Good luck.
Playing with a band, it's not even going to be noticed.
Finally, I cut the high down a "tad" with the tone control and can't even hear it anymore.
(But some bassist like crisp high end sounding bass guitar and yes, the 60 cycle hum will be annoying.)
Single coil hum is the price to be paid for a great sounding pickup as in the '51 to '56 Ps.
As already mentioned, the Fralin dual coil (and there are others) is a way to avoid the hum but then the pickup becomes a humbucker and the original sound is changed.
Good luck.
And some flat out incorrect statements, such as "Typically more wraps results in higher output as it creates a stronger magnetic field."
Yes, the article is basic. Please elucidate your higher order understanding of the topic. I am not an electrical engineer.
Yes, the article is guitar-centric. However, essentially the same pickup technology is used in electric guitars and electric bass guitars. My use of the article is appropriate to the topic of this thread entitled “single coil hum”. Again if you have greater knowledge of the subject please share it.
From Fralin’s website:
The number of turns of coil wire will dictate the voltage created – how ‘hot’ the pickup is. So, in essence, the more turns of wire will generate more voltage and a stronger signal. Generally speaking, more turns of wire will create a louder pickup, and fewer turns of wire will equate to a weaker pickup. I can hear you from here: “That’s good and all, but what does that do to the tone?”
This website probably has answers regarding turns and magnetic field but it is way beyond my knowledge base:
22.1: Magnetic Flux, Induction, and Faraday’s Law
Maybe you can tell me the answers from the information posted there?
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This is a myth. Actually, it's an entire school of thought. One of my guitar playing friends says this, and playing with him is an obnoxious experience. I'm going to coin a phrase, "hum creep." It's where the acceptance of hum as the price of "good tone" results in the ever increasing level of acceptable hum by the person believing it's an acceptable price. If a little hum is tolerable, then a little more hum is also tolerable. And a little more, and a little more. The funny thing about that is that the actual tone isn't any better than what could be had with hum canceling pickups.
The best Fender Jazz bass pickups I've ever heard are the Fender Super 55 dual inline coil pickups (split coil in a J form factor). No single coil pickup sounds better to my ear. I have a set of Delanos that sound just about as good, and they are also hum canceling. I like my basses to be dead silent when I'm not actually playing them, and I don't have to turn the volume down at the bass or at the amp for that to happen.
The quote I posted above states that the coil in the pickup creates a magnetic field. This is false - it does not. That's all I was pointing out - that there are factually incorrect statements in that article.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,002
- 1
- 31,693
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
The most glaring issue is the way they declare that "humbucker" can only possibly mean two full-length coils placed side by side and wired in series. This is just one of at least six possible ways to "buck hum" (eliminate electromagnetic noise):
- Two full-length coils, side by side, wired in series (Gibson PAF)
- Two full-length coils, side by side, wired in parallel (MusicMan Stingray)
- Two full-length coils, one on top of the other, wired in series or parallel (stacked-coil Jazz)
- Two half-length coils, placed end to end, wired in series (Fender Precision)
- Two full-length coils, facing one another, with a central ferrous core ("sidewinder", Gibson mudbucker and Ripper)
- One or two individual coils per string, half RWRP with the other half, wired in series or parallel or some combination (Wal)
Now, in guitarist circles, it is almost universally true that "humbucker" means a pickup made like a Gibson PAF. But here in the bass world, we have many more options from which to choose. Further, the approach to tone is much different between guitarists and bassists.
There's been an amazing amount of recorded music made with single coils. Strats, Teles and other guitars and basses. Such artists as Clapton, Hendrix, James Burton, Steve Cropper.........many others used single coils.
Humbuckers are not perfectly quiet. Yes, fairly quiet but they give off noise too. Turn the volume up to "11" while not playing and listen. Take your hands off of the strings and listen.
Your amp probably has a fan. They give off noise.
Collin Bass wants to know how to quiet down 60 cycle hum. Copper shielding tape can be used in the pickup cavity and ground it out to the pots. Some say that by twisting the 2 pickup wires together in a spiral can reduce hum. Aero Instruments does this with their single coil pickups.
Aside from the 60 cycle hum which all in all is not all that bad, single coil pickups have an advantage over humbuckers in that they are more articulate and have better definition. That is a fact.
Now if someone can't stand 60 cycle hum, use humbuckers.
It's not a sin to use single coils.
I like vanilla ice cream. Some like chocolate or butter pecan. "Whatever floats your boat." Single coil. Humbucker. Whatever.
Peace.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,002
- 1
- 31,693
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Never said otherwise.
My hands are often off the strings with the volume on my bass cranked. There are songs we do where I am clapping to get audience participation. The bass is just hanging there with the volume on full. Dead silence. Just the way I like it.
Shielding doesn't do anything to mitigate 60Hz (or 50Hz) hum. Neither does wire twisting. That stuff helps with other types of interference -- and I'm a big advocate for shielding. I like my basses quiet.
This is just silly. You apparently have never heard humbuckers with stellar articulation and definition, but I assure you they exist. Repeatedly insisting otherwise does not make your opinion a fact.
True.
A stronger magnetic field. Here is the pull quote: "Typically more wraps results in higher output as it creates a stronger magnetic field".
https://image5.slideserve.com/9645888/4-magnetic-field-due-to-current-in-a-solenoid-l.jpg
http://image.slideserve.com/162570/magnetic-field-of-a-solenoid-l.jpg
https://cdn.drbakstmagnetics.com/what_happens_when_magnetic_field_is_increased.jpg
20.3 Electromagnetic Induction - Physics | OpenStax
Pull quote:
Finally, for a coil made from N loops, the emf is N times stronger than for a single loop. Thus, the emf induced by a changing magnetic field in a coil of N loops is
ε∝NΔBcosθΔtA.
https://users.manchester.edu/facstaff/gwclark/PHYS301/AJP Articles/AJP Electric Guitar pickup.pdf
Link Removed
22.1: Magnetic Flux, Induction, and Faraday’s Law
11.2: Voltage Related To Field
Classical electromagnetism - Wikipedia
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- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,002
- 1
- 31,693
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
The coil doesn’t create the magnetic field. The magnets do.
The only way for a coil to create a magnetic field is to push some current into it, which is the opposite of how pickups work.
The only way for a coil to create a magnetic field is to push some current into it, which is the opposite of how pickups work.
The coil in a pickup doesn't create a magnetic field, so it also doesn't create a stronger magnetic field. Yes, if you change the words, you can make true statements. More turns do in general produce a larger EMF. But not magnetic field. Sorry but that is just a flat out false statement. I don't need to be schooled in electromagnetism - done plenty of that in way too many years in college and working as an electrical engineer.
For anybody that was wondering, I ended up getting the Lindy Fralin split 51, stock wound. And it's so good. So quiet we're not being touched, obviously know him because it's a humbucker essentially, and such great tone. Although I did also shield the cavities which I'm sure contributed a little bit. I don't regret it one bit!
Attachments
^this. No amount of copper or aluminum foil will get rid of the electromagnetically (inductively) -coupled hum that constitutes the bulk of the hum/buzz that single coils pick up. You can completely wrap your pickups in copper and it won't help, as copper is not ferromagnetic. This is a very commonly misunderstood issue.
Ah, an expert enters the thread!
I would love to see what you have to say about this. I found that the buzz/noise in a single coil pick is significantly reduced by placing a non-ferrous metal plate around the pickup, just like an aluminum pickguard. It doesn't reduce hum but it does significantly reduce a different type of noise that I would characterize as "buzz" (a word you used above). Any ideas?
I have a few demo videos on my YT channel - here's one.
I thought it might be an attenuation effect (reduction in magnitude of EM radiation as it passes through a (non-ferrous) conductor of some thickness). But other tests have convinced me it is not attenuation. More of an interaction of the coil field with the conductor, but not sure what type of interaction. The reason I think it is not attenuation is because I tried placing larger, thicker plates over the pickup and it did not reduce the noise. It has to surround the coil.
