Single-Coil Precision vs. Spilt-Coil Precision?

[winterburn69]

So I got a chance to play a few basses at L&M yesterday. There's a white blonde Squier Classic Vibe 50s that's been there several months and I always pick it up whenever I'm there (fantastic playing bass btw, I almost walk out with it every time I'm there, but I already have a white blonde bass)

After playing the 50s P, I picked up a few regular spilt-coil P basses and played them and I didn't think there was much of a difference in sound. Yeah, there's subtle differences, but I think overall it's incredibly close to a regular P bass and I really don't think most people would be able to tell the difference in a Pepsi challenge-type test.

The reason for all this nonsense?
I've been in love with Sting's Certifiable tone for several years now, and I'd like to get the closest I can to his tone, preferably using a regular P bass, which seems much more attainable than I previously thought (or maybe I'm going deaf, which could be a very likely possibility)

What say ye, Talkbass?

 

[Torrente Cro]

I think that "single coil" P pickup also consist of two coils, but they are in-line.
With pickup cover it looks single, but is actually married ;-)

 

[mongo2]

I think that "single coil" P pickup also consist of two coils, but they are in-line.
With pickup cover it looks single, but is actually married ;-)

Nope, it's just a single coil.

RE: Sting...Last I saw Sting currently uses a Custom Shop copy of his 4/57 SCPB that uses a stacked humbucking pickup by the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop.

 

[jd56hawk]

So I got a chance to play a few basses at L&M yesterday. There's a white blonde Squier Classic Vibe 50s that's been there several months and I always pick it up whenever I'm there (fantastic playing bass btw, I almost walk out with it every time I'm there, but I already have a white blonde bass)

After playing the 50s P, I picked up a few regular spilt-coil P basses and played them and I didn't think there was much of a difference in sound. Yeah, there's subtle differences, but I think overall it's incredibly close to a regular P bass and I really don't think most people would be able to tell the difference in a Pepsi challenge-type test.

The reason for all this nonsense?
I've been in love with Sting's Certifiable tone for several years now, and I'd like to get the closest I can to his tone, preferably using a regular P bass, which seems much more attainable than I previously thought (or maybe I'm going deaf, which could be a very likely possibility)

What say ye, Talkbass?

I say go with this.

 

[bassdude51]

I'm blessed to have both the Fender Sting Bass and a '63 AVRI P.

The difference between the two? It's pretty much the old single coil vs the humbucker story. You've probably heard the story before so I'll skip most of redundant details. Yes, the single coil pickup does hum a little bit but it's not that bad and if the tone is rolled off just a wee bit, it becomes almost impossible to hear it.

Single coils tend to be clear and well defined and are full range with the low bass being deep and tight in sound and the mids are balanced. Humbuckers (the P split coil) tend to be thicker (a wee bit muddy) and not as well defined as a single coil with the mids being a bit stronger in volume.

Without going any farther.....................the single coil will be it's own animal but by rolling off the high end and some eq-ing, we can also get the single coil to sound about 90% like the split coil P. In other words, the single coil P pickup can be thickened up.

On the other hand, the split coil P pickup is pretty impossible in trying to sound like the single coil. It can only go from beefy to beefier.

We can always get a thin and bright pickup to sound thicker but it is pretty difficult to get a thick pickup to sound thin.

Make any sense? It's very difficult to verbally describe sound!

 

[JTE]

The key factor is the pole pieces and how they affect the attack of the note. The single coil has one pole per string. The split coil has two. The single pole reads the string quite differently from the two poles. Leo Fender designed the dual pole pickup to soften the the attack based on experiences with the single poles trashing speakers in his bass amps.

Wilton Felder recorded The Jackson Fives' "I Want You Back" using a Telecaster Bass, essentially a reproduction of the pre-54 Precision and its single coil PUP. There was a long discussion on TB about that track with many people whose ears I trust asserting it HAD to be a pick rather than fingers. I got an email via The Crusaders' management company from Mr. Felder saying "Always fingers, never a pick". The point being that the characteristic attack one gets from the single coil is quite different from the split coil.

 

[MovingPitchers]

On single coil P Basses, it's just a regular single coil, right? As far as I know, it is.

So those folks who think a Jazz can imitate a P just by playing the neck pickup is sort of right if they're talking about pre-1957 Precisions.

Unless I'm majorly mistaken and the single coils on pre-57 Ps are specially wound...

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

I have tried the neck only on a J to sound like a single coil P.
The quick answer is
yes
and
no.

It does sound single coil, but it lacks the attack of the single pole peives.

 

[JTE]

On single coil P Basses, it's just a regular single coil, right? As far as I know, it is.

So those folks who think a Jazz can imitate a P just by playing the neck pickup is sort of right if they're talking about pre-1957 Precisions.

Unless I'm majorly mistaken and the single coils on pre-57 Ps are specially wound...

Nope, the pickup is wound differently AND the physical construction of the pole pieces is quite different, as explained in my previous post. A Jazz PUP does not sound much like a single-coil Precision PUP.

 

[DavC]

yep ... the Tele type P is a single coil ... but you Can upgrade it to a very quiet split-coil ..!!

i like split coils ,... versus stacked , dual , type humbuckers ... i think they sound most like singles ..!!

 

[MovingPitchers]

Nope, the pickup is wound differently AND the physical construction of the pole pieces is quite different, as explained in my previous post. A Jazz PUP does not sound much like a single-coil Precision PUP.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tim1]

I own a custom shop 64 jazz, 59 P (split coil) and 55 P (scpb) so can offer an opinion here. They each have a signature sound that is unique and identifiable to that instrument. The 55 scpb to my ears has the widest range and most even response of all three, I can make this bass sound very close to the 59 P split coil pickup but I cannot make the 59 P sound so close to the 55 scpb. The jazz has a well known tone but I cannot get it to sound as close to a P as I can the scpb. Neither can I get the Ps to sound particularly close to the jazz, but the scpb will go closer than the standard 59P.
Sorry if this is a bit roundabout. To summarise, IMO there is quite a difference in tone between the split coil (humbucker) P and the scpb. I think it would be very difficult to make a split coil P sound like a single coil although the reverse is a little easier to achieve.

 

[ofajen]

On the other hand, the split coil P pickup is pretty impossible in trying to sound like the single coil. It can only go from beefy to beefier.

We can always get a thin and bright pickup to sound thicker but it is pretty difficult to get a thick pickup to sound thin.

I'm not sure if I create a thin tone, but I'd say that the Q-filter passive midrange cut does a good job of shaping the heft of the tone of both my Ripper neck pickup (mine can solo it) and my standard split coil P bass. Carving out some mids allows the option of a deeper sounding tone without having to bass boost and mess up the low end.

Otto

 

[Doner Designs]

Some aftermarket pickup makers offer a noiseless replacement option for the old style single coil pickup if the noise becomes a problem for you. Personally I would find it intolerable.

 

[MetsMan75]

Good bass there..i got one with a custom neck.

I say go with this.

Pg

 

[bigtone23]

I have had a SCPB-it was similar to a 54ish bass. Liked it.
Traded loaded bodies for a Squier Dirnt body to get a split coil configuration P, which I lacked at the time. Have series/parallel switching on the pickup. Parallel Split coil mimics the EQ curve of a SCPB fairly well. Still don't have the same attack, but the mids are down and highs up relative to series. This is working well for me, though installing a SCPB PU in my Squier 72 Tele Bass would cop the tone perfectly.

 

[mojomike001]

This is the best sounding stacked dual-coil pickup disguised as a single-coil pickup that I've ever laid hands on. It's a humbucker that doesn't sacrifice any bite at all, but is completely noiseless. It's custom-wound to any specs you want and comes in every imaginable color as well. From Prima Guitars.

 

[Alivefor5]

Here's another option with some more sounds: Quarter pound Duncan single coils wound in their custom shop as one with reverse wind and reverse poles for humbucking operation. Stacked volumes and single tone. Neck is a Sting, body is a no name obtained here on TB with added tummy and forearm cuts. My finish with StewMac rattle cans. Sound is full and punchy from the neck pup. Adding some bridge pup brings in more mids and that one solos nicely. Somewhat similar to a J bass but different. Also somewhat similar to a Sting but different. Obviously can be fully humbucking if that is desired. A worthy experiment that I use occasionally in a traditional country setting.

 

[Antisyzygy]

So I got a chance to play a few basses at L&M yesterday. There's a white blonde Squier Classic Vibe 50s that's been there several months and I always pick it up whenever I'm there (fantastic playing bass btw, I almost walk out with it every time I'm there, but I already have a white blonde bass)

After playing the 50s P, I picked up a few regular spilt-coil P basses and played them and I didn't think there was much of a difference in sound. Yeah, there's subtle differences, but I think overall it's incredibly close to a regular P bass and I really don't think most people would be able to tell the difference in a Pepsi challenge-type test.

The reason for all this nonsense?
I've been in love with Sting's Certifiable tone for several years now, and I'd like to get the closest I can to his tone, preferably using a regular P bass, which seems much more attainable than I previously thought (or maybe I'm going deaf, which could be a very likely possibility)

What say ye, Talkbass?

Split Ps have a pronounced bottom with a bit of a mid to upper mid bump. They're thick and drive a bit more. They have a higher impedance than most single coils.

Single coil P pickups sound more hollow by comparison. The attack is more pronounced and they're somewhat scooped sounding with more presence than a split P.

The Split P pickup is sensing a wider area of string. The single coil is getting a crisper sound from the narrower sensing area.

That's to my ear at least.

 

[JGbassman]

I'm in the process of building a parts job based on a '55. I'm looking for a pickup that would best reproduce the good stuff the single coils have to offer. I'd be using the 51 style, and I do like the thought of noise cancelling, but I don't want to lose the characteristics of the bite the original single coil had. Any suggestions? I see a couple listed here already, just would like to hear some ideas, but not wanting to hijack the post.