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Single String Headless Tuner Design

#22
delta7fred said:
The only concern I have is that there is nothing to stop the string clamp lifting away from the base plate if the string pull is not straight or down (hope you follow what I mean).
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This could be alleviated by routing the pocket used to recess the tuners...at an angle down & away from the bridge ...pretty much the same angle as a headstock. This would make the strings dive down into the body on a nice consistent angle, to disappear under the concealing plate.
 
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#23
pilotjones said:
1. What about provision for constraint side-to-side?
2. You need to either countersing the holes in the baseplate to allow use of flat head screws, or remove material in the underside of the tuner block to allow for a round head screw sticking up
3. At only 1/16 thick, the angle bracket is pretty flimsy if aluminum, fine if steel, probably OK if brass. That sharp inside angle you show though is too sharp for a bent plate, so that would mean hogging out of a solid block unless you radius it, which would require a matching relief on the tuner block if you need to maintain full travel rearwards.
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1. None for the time being, but if the initial prototypes work out my thought is a slot in the baseplate with countersunk screws coming up from the bottom.
2. The screw holes in the baseplate are being countersunk.
3. I am aiming for brass, and if aluminum the bass plate will be thickened to accommodate the stresses of string tension. The baseplate is a bent piece, but my drawing did not make that apparent. Full rear traversal is not necessary. When attaching the string the tuning block will be extended out close to the 3/4" (a little less than that, but close enough) limit. If a string needs 3/4" of back pull to bring it to tension then I am going to assume that the string needs to be trimmed back and reattached tighter int he string retainer hole.
 
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#25
Rôckhewer said:
This could be alleviated by routing the pocket used to recess the tuners...at an angle down & away from the bridge ...pretty much the same angle as a headstock. This would make the strings dive down into the body on a nice consistent angle, to disappear under the concealing plate.
Click to expand...
That's true. Being more of a metalworker than a woodworker I visualised the tuner assemblies fitted to a flat top rather than having and angled route.

Having a concealing cover would work well with the angled route, in fact they may be able to be fitted on the back with the strings emerging through holes in the top for total concealment.

"Through body headless stringing."
 
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#26
michaelwayneharwood said:
One other point to mention is that the tuner size is small enough to be used in a dual-course configuration. That was the initial driving motivation to do this design. I needed something I could use in a headless 10 string dual-course bass that wasn't overwhelming the lower side of the body, and making them small enough to be able to hide them under a wooden panel provides a lot of options.
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Talking about double course reminded me of the old Steinberger 12 string guitar bridge.
Something similar, ie the captive tuning key that moves to engage each string could be appropriate here.
 
#27
lz4005 said:
Talking about double course reminded me of the old Steinberger 12 string guitar bridge.
Something similar, ie the captive tuning key that moves to engage each string could be appropriate here.
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The Steinbrger 12 string tractuner system is definitely a cool design!
 
#31
mapleglo said:
Are these available for pre-order?

Very cool!
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eightyearsapril said:
I'd join that Kickstarter campaign!
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Thanks guys! It seems to me that headless designs are a fairly niche product in general, and with this design doing away with the bridge saddle element it seems to narrow the possible audience of possibly interested builders or modders to a fairly small number. I have one commissioned build that these will be used for if all goes well, and possibly a second. These will be my go to replacement for the piano pin tuners I have been using, so at least I will get some serious mileage from the design. Unless it sucks. There's that possibility, or course. ;)

That being said ff these work out like I hope they will I would be more than happy to figure something out so that interested parties could get their hands on them. Getting parts machined in bulk would be the only way to make it worthwhile from a cost perspective. My in-laws are happy to do small projects for me now and then, but I do not think they would be willing to do anything in large quantities.
 
#33
Gee wizz! I go to work for 12 hours and come back to a whole new thread. lol Michael, this looks very promising, can't wait to see what develops. To those that question the ease of tuning, my Steiny hardly ever required retuning, perhaps once ever 3 or 4 months.
Rondo
 
#35
Hey Michael. I've had to come up with something similar, but not for single strings. Check out Invalid Link Removed on TDPRI.com. The design that I used starts at post # 11. Maybe I'll have to do another $100 build.

Edit - what do you plan to do about grounding?
 
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#36
2groggy said:
Hey Michael. I've had to come up with something similar, but not for single strings. Check out Invalid Link Removed on TDPRI.com. The design that I used starts at post # 11. Maybe I'll have to do another $100 build.

Edit - what do you plan to do about grounding?
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Your design is awesome! Can you tell me what your experiences are with using a hex wrench for tuning? The grounding would be handled in the same way you would handle grounding with any single string bridge, which is either a single wire going underneath each tuner, or a single wire to a single tuner in combination with a zero fret / brass nut that completes the circuit.

I have reached out to the guys at Hipshot to get a ballpark cost for manufacturing, and am planning on getting some quotes from local machine shops.
 
#37
Nice work.

I think you might need something more robust than a #4 screw to do the heavy lifting part of the tuning.

Using fine threads is a good idea for precision, but if I'm seeing it correctly, 10-32 might be in order.
 
#38
Slevage said:
Nice work.

I think you might need something more robust than a #4 screw to do the heavy lifting part of the tuning.

Using fine threads is a good idea for precision, but if I'm seeing it correctly, 10-32 might be in order.
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That is actually one of the changes that was made to the original design. Updated design docs will be provided when I have them completed. ;)
 
#39
michaelwayneharwood said:
Your design is awesome! Can you tell me what your experiences are with using a hex wrench for tuning? The grounding would be handled in the same way you would handle grounding with any single string bridge, which is either a single wire going underneath each tuner, or a single wire to a single tuner in combination with a zero fret / brass nut that completes the circuit.
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I used whatever 8-32 screws that I had around, and being Canadian, that usually means "red Robertson". That translates to a "square head screwdriver". We love them. Nobody else gets it.
What you can expect from touching a metal implement to a metal screw head during tuning is a resounding "tinnnggggg" sound to come through the amp. Other than that, it holds tuning very well.

For the ground on my unit, you can see a little red electrical connector beside the high E tuning screw that connects to the common aluminum angle.

Here's one more idea for you... I have bought a box of 1-1/2" long 10-32 NF thumb screws. I'll send a picture tonight after I get home. I haven't built them into a bridge yet, so I can't vouch for how easily they turn under tension, but I'll trade you a dozen of those for some of the piano tuning pegs, if you have any to spare. With tuning pegs at the headstock for coarse adjustment and screw tuners at the tailstock, we would never run out of room for adjustment.
 
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#40
2groggy said:
I used whatever 8-32 screws that I had around, and being Canadian, that usually means "red Robertson". That translates to a "square head screwdriver". We love them. Nobody else gets it.
What you can expect from touching a metal implement to a metal screw head during tuning is a resounding "tinnnggggg" sound to come through the amp. Other than that, it holds tuning very well.

For the ground on my unit, you can see a little red electrical connector beside the high E tuning screw that connects to the common aluminum angle.

Here's one more idea for you... I have bought a box of 1-1/2" long 10-32 NF thumb screws. I'll send a picture tonight after I get home. I haven't built them into a bridge yet, so I can't vouch for how easily they turn under tension, but I'll trade you a dozen of those for some of the piano tuning pegs, if you have any to spare. With tuning pegs at the headstock for coarse adjustment and screw tuners at the tailstock, we would never run out of room for adjustment.
Click to expand...
I actually love the square head screws, and have wondered why they are adopted more widely. I like your idea on the multiple tuning locations. PM'd.
 

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