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Ski Jump on SR, Repair Advice

3rdstone

3rdstone

Nov 27, 2010
49
36
Bay Area, Michigan
#1
Hi Folks,
I bought an Ibanez SR 655 last year, and I absolutely love the tone it gets with the PJ Nordstrands, it's better than my SR 1805 (Nord Js), believe it or not.

It plays OK, but I'd like to get the action at or less than 2.5mm or so at the 12th, and can't get there without buzzing from the 12th on up to the 24th. (Ski Jump Syndrome).

I was going to send it back under warranty, but UPS is more than 60usd, and FedEx is even higher to ship it to Ibanez. I imagine a tech could fix it but don't know if it'd be any cheaper ... Plus the chance that if they do put a new neck on, it wouldn't address the problem once strings go back on. (very slim neck).

So I looked up the radius (305mm) and bought an 8" long radiused block (12" radius), a crowning file, and also have a good straightedge to check things over.

I looked up a couple different 'ski jump' threads here, and get the idea from other advice given, that I could do this myself.

Couple of concerns: The bowing on the low B side is greater than the high G side with the strings on, how do I account for this? Do I take one string off at a time and try to do it that way?

I had planned on using the marker on the fret tops and proceed that way, but would like my concern addressed before I proceed. Any further advice greatly appreciated..

Thanks
-Steve
 
#2
If they replace the neck, the problem will be solved. Removing the frets, planing the board and reinstalling/leveling frets will be more than shipping. Send it back under warranty.

edit tldr. too late, you bought tools. if you're certain it's a ski jump, remove frets, level board, reinstall frets, level frets. How old is the bass, if it's not very old and it has a ski jump, that thing may just turn into a boomerang before long.
 
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#3
bobdabilder said:
If they replace the neck, the problem will be solved. Removing the frets, planing the board and reinstalling/leveling frets will be more than shipping. Send it back under warranty.
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding. So you think I need to remove frets? Wow, I hadn't considered that, was just going to sand the frets down slightly...(not a big ski jump)

BTW, The reason I started my own thread, is because all the others I've seen about this are on Fenders etc.. (more stout-necked instruments).
The SR line is very different from these types of necks. To be exact, 1.95cm at the 1st, and 2.15 at the 12th, as far as thickness goes.. so, very slim indeed.

Anyway, do others think I should send it back as well? Second Opinions? Should I take a few pics?

Cheers
-Steve
 
#4
To answer your edit, the bass is one year old, and I'm fairly certain the increased bow from approx 12th fret onwards is 'ski jump' type of bow.

But again, it's very slight. Maybe I'm just wanting the action too low, then again 2.5mm is what Ibanez states it should be on the low B side, and 2mm on the high side.
And I can't get there without the buzzing up top, even after several truss adjustments to make quadruple sure I wasn't distorting a different section of the neck/fret surface.
 
Last edited:
#7
bobdabilder said:
walk through the setup stickies and make sure you're 100% on the ski jump.
Click to expand...
After further examination, I guess I should have used the words "12th fret kink" as described extensively in this thread: Getting the Facts about Ski Jumps ..and the possible fix I was inquiring about is in post #80 under 5. a)

That is to redress/level the frets in the area from the 12th to the heel, my quest for advice remains the same.

On a side note: I just took the strings off the SR655, and was going to try and level them, when to my disappointment, no matter how much you loosen the truss, the bow towards the string area is there when the instrument is de-strung. It would seem that in order to make the neck as thin as possible, Ibanez engineers this bow in anticipation of string tension, uggh...
Which means I can't start from a (literally) "level" playing field.
 
#8
3rdstone said:
After further examination, I guess I should have used the words "12th fret kink" as described extensively in this thread: Getting the Facts about Ski Jumps ..and the possible fix I was inquiring about is in post #80 under 5. a)

That is to redress/level the frets in the area from the 12th to the heel, my quest for advice remains the same.
Click to expand...
You probably need a neck jig to get it done. Unfortunately they are very costly for a single job.

Getting the Facts about Ski Jumps
 
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#9
OK, I just restrung it and adjusted the truss, and to confirm my earlier findings, I over tightened it a bit.
What I get when I do this is that the frets are high around the 4-7th or so, a smaller (but still there) dip at the 12th, and a very slight rise from there up to the where it bolts to the body.
Like I said I have done this dozens of times with the same result, this truss has an immediate effect on this neck, so...

I suppose I could try filing the frets down in the 4-7th area, but would be much more comfortable loosening the truss and addressing the 12th and up bowing area.

It's so frustrating though.. Reason being is that I'm only looking for less than a half millimeter improvement in the action.
The action is about 2.7-8mm at the 12th right now, and if I could get it to 2.3-4mm, I'd be a happy camper..

Hell, I'd have the darn thing PLEK'd if that procedure wasn't going to cost me almost half of the purchase price...
 
#10
Turnaround said:
You probably need a neck jig to get it done. Unfortunately they are very costly for a single job.

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've seen that demonstrated, and it seems like it would work, but like you say..very costly for a single job.
It's also why I mentioned the PLEK just now. As I have investigated this thoroughly..due to my bow being uneven, skewed towards the B string.
 
#11
Hold the bus... I didn't turn the truss counterclockwise enough (past loose). I can get it straight, real straight... yes!

So back to original idea of using a marker, and taking just a couple thousands at the 13th, to progressively more towards the 24th.
I think with small passes, and frequent checks of the marks, I can do this...

Words from the wise?
 
#12
Well, I was very cautious for the leveling, but am happy to say it was a success... round one that is...
Turns out, that flat-neck setting with the truss, is different than with strings on. So a follow-up will be needed...

But ...I was able to adjust the truss and bridge to where the action is set artificially low (2mm).
There are random spots that have buzzing after my work, but I'll take those individual frets down as needed.
I just need to mark those isolated spots, and treat them separately from the overall 'ramping' work I did..

Thanks for all your replies folks...:thumbsup:
 
#13
3rdstone said:
to confirm my earlier findings, I over tightened it a bit.
What I get when I do this is that the frets are high around the 4-7th or so, a smaller (but still there) dip at the 12th, and a very slight rise from there up to the where it bolts to the body.
Like I said I have done this dozens of times with the same result, this truss has an immediate effect on this neck, so...
Click to expand...
yep.

you tighten and it starts to backbow towards the nut while still having the upbow at the body end?

that's the classic ski-ramp problem. the best advice is to return the damn thing.

barring that, before you go grinding on frets it might be worth a shot to do the heat-bending thing mentioned in that same ski ramp thread.

at least if that fails and you were careful, the bass would still be"stock" and you could return it. once you go grinding on frets as an end-user, my guess is the warranty would be void.
 
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#15
OK, I'm back again with an even bigger problem neck.
Short summary: I sold my SR1805 due to wanting another bass with a "P" pickup instead of the 1805s "Big Singles".

So I ordered an SR 755, to go along with my 655, (Different woods, therefore different tones).

Get the bass delivered, and not only does it have the same ski jump, the truss rod was so tight when I took delivery, that it's at the edge of stripping out..(!!)
That, and the problem is worse. To get even a little reduction in the ramping from the 12th (actually 10th) fret up to the 24th, tightening the truss leads directly to fret buzz at the 2nd through the 7-8th frets...uggh!
This time I'm not touching the frets, or doing any sort of work on the neck that would void the warranty.
(The 655 was a smaller problem that I was able to correct, as seen up-thread, but like I said, this 755 is much worse)

The place I bought it from is paying shipping back to the Ibanez warranty station, so that's good..

Here is my question(s):
I know they are going to tell me "There needs to be relief in the neck, otherwise all the frets will buzz"
Well duh! I've only been playing and setting up my own basses for like 35 yrs..

How do I go about convincing them that this neck will never be able to play well with simple truss adjustments etc. ?
That this neck has an "S" curve, and adjusting it won't work, futile even..
Etc, etc... How would any one of you... (luthiers or otherwise) word it so they are compelled to take it seriously, and agree to replace the neck?
Any and all comments/suggestions welcome..:thumbsup:

Side note: I think Ibanez, unless they change their ways, are asking for more problems, all in a pursuit of uber thin necks...shame..

Over and out..
-Steve
 
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#16
Oh, and in case any of you are saying "send it back to the store you bought it from"...hold on a bit..
The whole reason I bought this particular bass, was the very unique wood pattern of the body..
If you look at most 755 pics, the body wood is generic at best, but this particular 755 has a one-of-a-kind wood pattern..nuff said..I'm keepin'it..
 
#18
It doesn't sound to me like the neck needs to be replaced. The S-bend condition that you are describing is caused by the combination of the the truss rod being way too tight, and some amount of 12th fret kink (aka ski jump). The solution is to loosen the truss rod and level the frets properly.

Have you tried loosening the truss rod and putting some relief into the neck? That will remove the backbow and buzzing on the outer (1st-14th) length of the neck. Then evaluate how bad the ski jump is; whether you can live with the action limitation or how much correction it needs.
 
#19
Bruce Johnson said:
It doesn't sound to me like the neck needs to be replaced. The S-bend condition that you are describing is caused by the combination of the the truss rod being way too tight, and some amount of 12th fret kink (aka ski jump). The solution is to loosen the truss rod and level the frets properly.

Have you tried loosening the truss rod and putting some relief into the neck? That will remove the backbow and buzzing on the outer (1st-14th) length of the neck. Then evaluate how bad the ski jump is; whether you can live with the action limitation or how much correction it needs.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing, if I loosen the truss at all, the whole section from around the 10th to the 24th buzzes because of ski jump.
If I set the action to 3.5-4mm the buzzing will stop, but there's now way I'm dealing with that, every one of my other 5 strings has 2.25-2.5mm action at the 12th, and my 4 strings are at 2mm, with absolutely no fret buzz at all, on any note. (Those are bass-side figures, action goes down to 1.75-2mm , treble side of my basses)

What the bass neck suffers from is an uneven relief bow, sort of normal from the nut to the 10-12th and a lot more from there on out. (12th fret kink plus ski jump ramping)
I could try a shim, but I just paid over $800 for this bass, and it's under warranty. I shouldn't have to deal with fixes on a brand new bass.

With my 655, there was a 'starting point' of very small amount of these conditions, with this one, I'd run out of fret if I tried leveling.
I might make a little video showing this later on after work tonight...Speaking of which, gotta run or I'll be late..
 
#20
Hope you get this sorted! If you decide you want to try a neck jig approach, the Matt Vinson neck jig can be built for around $30 in materials. I built one and used it for fret leveling on my build, seemed to work quite well. The Stewmac jig is obviously easier to adjust, etc, but hard to justify for amateurs. Here's a thread I started a while back, some interesting discussion on pros/cons:
Stewmac/Matt Vinson Style Neck Jig
 
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