Ski Jumped El Toro neck off to warpedneck.com

[Lo-E]

I assuming you're asking about the El Toro, since that wouldn't be applicable given the massive backbow on the Ray4 neck.

When I was still on the road and gigging with it nightly, the truss rod on the G&L had been maxed for quite awhile and I still needed aircraft warning lights the action was so high. In kind of a last-ditch attempt to make it more playable, I took it to a great tech in the Quad Cities who had an Erlewine neck jig. He pulled the frets and planed the board to the point where the slots for the highest frets now go all the way through it. Even then fret leveling wasn't enough. I also remember him telling me how stressed out he was trying to see if he could get any more turn out of the truss rod. At this point in time, with the strings off and the truss rod completely loose, it's even worse. Even taking some of the frets down to the rosewood still wouldn't be enough.

I'm not going to be surprised if they call and tell me they can't fix either one of them, although when I explained the situation on the phone, he thought the El Toro probably was, but possibly not the Ray4.

I absolutely love the feel of early 1980s G&L necks but it's really common to find them ski-jumped and it's really common to see that first fret crack (2 of my three have it). It seems every downside of a standard, single-acting truss rod was magnified in these basses. Totally worth fixing, though!

 

[dune]

In the case of the old El Toro necks, the fingerboard is of the "veneer" type (not really veneer, but the underside is radiused as well as the face so the material is very thin) so there's not much to plane.

As I mentioned in my response to @MVE, this one had already been planed in the late 80's or early 90's. The focus on the shot of the El Toro neck above isn't the best, but it's good enough to see how thin it is and that the fret slots now go through the board entirely.

 

[dune]

I absolutely love the feel of early 1980s G&L necks but it's really common to find them ski-jumped and it's really common to see that first fret crack (2 of my three have it). It seems every downside of a standard, single-acting truss rod was magnified in these basses. Totally worth fixing, though!

I remember reading a post from a much more experienced luthier than I in which he said those cracks were the reason he prefers heel adjust over headstock. All of the basses I've built are heel adjust. Oh, and the guy I spoke with at warpedneck.com said he had done a TON of G&L's.

Regarding the neck on the El Toro - when I was playing it all the time, I didn't like playing other basses much at all. Ironically perhaps, I now realize that I was so used to playing on such an insanely high action that nothing else felt "right". So, I guess in a roundabout way that means I was in love with that neck. Dysfunctional relationship with a dysfunctional neck. That's messed up but it was what it was.
When I built the clone of it a couple years ago, I made the neck a 5-piece laminate with wenge stringers and still left it pretty thick, especially up above the 14th fret.

 

[dune]

I've read where some folks have had luck with heat lamps, heating pads (drugstore style) and even leaving them clamped out in the hot sun.
Given how long the process takes, none of those ideas are appealing. Not to mention that I don't have any experience, and don't want to invest the time to even become an "internet expert" on it. Having to leave a heat lamp or other heat source out in my shop running continuously for a week or two was a non-starter.

 

[Lo-E]

I've read where some folks have had luck with heat lamps, heating pads (drugstore style) and even leaving them clamped out in the hot sun.
Given how long the process takes, none of those ideas are appealing. Not to mention that I don't have any experience, and don't want to invest the time to even become an "internet expert" on it. Having to leave a heat lamp or other heat source out in my shop running continuously for a week or two was a non-starter.

It's a black art of sorts. It's definitely not an exact science by any means.

FWIW, I don't leave necks unattended while heating. Short stints: 20-25 minutes with an iron or 2-3 hours with a heating pad and then let it rest for about 24 hours. Repeat as often as needed, usually three or four times. That's what's worked for me.

The only outlier was an old National map guitar who's neck was so bowed I tied it to a steam radiator in my apartment in a backbow and left it for three days! That was a pretty barbaric approach, I'll admit, but that neck has been dead straight now for over 20 years. Nowadays I take the conservative approach described above. It takes longer because of the multiple sessions but it's very controlled.

 

[Matt O]

I assume that they're going to be using silicone heating mats. I looked into ordering some and doing it myself, but they're pricey enough (for quality that I could have trusted) that it didn't make sense to buy them for just 2 necks. Not to mention I have ZERO experience doing it. I've been reading good stuff about warpedneck.com for years.

Cool, good to know. Thanks for starting this thread, I'm calling them tomorrow. It would be great if this neck could hold onto its original frets.

 

[got_the_bug]

Recent experience with warpedneck.com…highly recommended!

Fixed a badly front bowed StingRay5 neck for me, that in his words was "one of the worst he's seen". Because of the number of heat treatments and time it took to remediate, it cost $200, but it was totally worth it to me for a bass restored to like new. After all, StingRay5 necks with matching headstocks in the body color you need don't often come up for sale, if ever.

I asked about whether it was a permanent fix or if the bowed neck was already weakened, and his response was that the bowed neck was not the natural state…not really where the wood wants to be, and that as long as I took care of the neck going forward, it was permanent.

Back last week and installed/set up over the weekend, and I'm impressed:

Wish I took a before pic, because even with the strings off it was obviously significantly bowed.

 

[TomB]

I had great luck using Warpedneck.com to straighten a G&L neck that is full of figure and was ever so slightly twisted. It also seemed hopelessly bowed - but it returned in short order with its proper shape and with no twist. It has now acclimated to our climate; it is stable and plays just right - the truss rod works perfectly. I don't know how they do it (and so quickly) but I am very happy with their results - $125 + shipping.

 

[Neck Diver]

Ouch. Good luck with your repair. Please update us with the results.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I'll just mention that all of us Luthiers here in the Secret Underground Lab have been using the services of Warpedneck.com for years, and they've always done good work for us. Often, a neck will come to us for a full rebuild, new truss rod, new fingerboard, etc., and it will also have a bad warp or twist. We'll send it first to Warpedneck.com to have it basically straightened out. Then we'll do the more serious surgery.

Beware of this: When you send them a warped or twisted neck, they will straighten it out pretty darn close. And it probably will stay that way long term. But the straightening alone doesn't make the frets level. When you get it back, you probably will need to have the frets re-leveled, or possibly replaced. You can't expect their straightening process to bring the frets back to perfect level.

I don't know if they do fret leveling there, but I think it's not normally included in the neck straightening. I believe most of their customers are Luthiers like us, who will do the finish-up work and reassemble the bass. If you are sending them a neck, ask them if they will level the frets too. If not, you'll have to have that done by someone else, or do it yourself.

They do their heat straightening process using silicone heating blankets and fixtures with clamps. It's a long careful process of applying the heat to particular areas. They hold the temperatures at different points for some numbers of hours, then apply the bending load with heat for a while, then remove the heat slowly, then remove the clamping. They have a lot of experience at it, and have worked out the process and schedule for different types of neck construction and different types of warpage. And they are almost always successful, with no apparent damage to the neck.

The cost is typically $75-$200 plus return shipping.

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Interesting. What process did they use? I have a 66 P neck with a ski jump, trying not to yank the frets and plane.

Dunno. I asked for them to take the ski jump out of the neck, and they did.

 

[mrperkolator]

Well I'm surprised. They seem to be affiliated with Sky Guitars in Denton. It's been a while since I was there, but sky doesn't always enjoy a good reputation. 30 years ago they had a master luthier who moved on to work on violins at the Smithsonian iirc. Hard act to follow.

 

[dune]

Well I'm surprised. They seem to be affiliated with Sky Guitars in Denton. It's been a while since I was there, but sky doesn't always enjoy a good reputation. 30 years ago they had a master luthier who moved on to work on violins at the Smithsonian iirc. Hard act to follow.

Especially since they took it upon themselves to address additional issues on the G&L without consulting me, I hope that this less than good reputation is undeserved. I was told that in addition to straightening the neck (which is all that had ever been discussed) they crafted a custom spacer for the truss rod and fixed the fretboard cracks at the first fret. To be clear, had they asked I probably would have been OK with the crafting of the spacer, but would have turned down their fixing the cracks as I was planning on either leaving them alone or doing that myself.

 

[mrperkolator]

Especially since they took it upon themselves to address additional issues on the G&L without consulting me, I hope that this less than good reputation is undeserved. I was told that in addition to straightening the neck (which is all that had ever been discussed) they crafted a custom spacer for the truss rod and fixed the fretboard cracks at the first fret. To be clear, had they asked I probably would have been OK with the crafting of the spacer, but would have turned down their fixing the cracks as I was planning on either leaving them alone or doing that myself.

Well perhaps they're only affiliated loosely with Sky Guitars. Could be that this is a side hustle for the underpaid luthier at Sky Guitars. Or other possibilities.

Either way it's not him with bad rep, it's Sky. And to be honest I haven't been there in a very long time, so perhaps what I remember is not current.

Also I am pleasantly surprised about this. I'm actually happy since there's a few hidden in the woods sort of luthiers in North Texas that deserve praise.

 

[Jim C]

Erik fixed my J bass neck a couple years ago, touched up a couple frets, and it has been perfect ever since.
Highly recommended.

 

[Lownote38]

Just curious, why would you try heat-bending before just pulling frets and re-leveling?

Because you don't have to pull the frets, sand, and refret the neck. Less work and less cost.

 

[Lownote38]

Interesting. What process did they use? I have a 66 P neck with a ski jump, trying not to yank the frets and plane.

Erik can fix it. He's fixed to Fender necks with ski jumps for me, and they're still straight 7 years later.

 

[Matt O]

Erik can fix it. He's fixed to Fender necks with ski jumps for me, and they're still straight 7 years later.

Good to hear another positive result. I called and he said pffft no prob send it in. It's all boxed up ready to go.

 

[dune]

Fantastic work from warpedneck.com!!! I won't know for sure that they're going to work until I get them strung back up, but if they don't, that won't have anything to do with their work as they both may simply have been too far gone. I'm wondering if the El Toro neck is going to need to be leveled and re-fretted as @Bruce Johnson mentioned. Having had it planed so much back in the day, when in retrospect, heat treatment would have been the way to go, now that it's been returned to a more normal state, more adjustment may be required. For all I know, it may even have been slightly twisted when it was planed. Their fixing of the fretboard cracks looks phenomenal. Regarding the Ray4 neck, they said that it was the worst backbow they had ever seen. It began right at the top of the neck heel (which looked SO wrong), and that may or may not be an issue going forward.

 

[dune]

I tried removing and replacing the first fret that had been pushed up by the truss rod, but that was a no go. Pulled the frets and realized that many of the slots had become wider to the point where the tangs weren't gripping. A quick 2-day delivery, and Stewmac's fret tang crimper to the rescue.