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Slam, Punch, and Heft

Do you hear a difference between old school Ferrite based cabinets and Neo based cabinets?

  • Yes - Definitely

    Votes: 33 35.5%

  • Maybe a Little

    Votes: 12 12.9%

  • None at All

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Total voters
    93
Nuisance

Nuisance

Blowing out ear drums since 1984
Jan 3, 2017
664
1,798
#1
I've gone down a weird rabbit hole lately. I've been playing Neo cabs for a long time, and recently had the opportunity to play through an old (100 pound) 4x10 Peavey Ferrite TVX cabinet. To my ears the difference in punch was not minor.........it was significant. I could not believe the slam and punch this was delivering compared to my Markbass and Subway cabs (to be fair, they were different speaker configurations). IMHO it was a lot more fun to play through the old school cab. So now I'm wondering if this is something that applies to ALL Neo cabs. I'm assuming the lighter magnets just don't have the force the heavier ones do to move the speakers.

I'll be doing some A/B testing this weekend but thought I would start a poll on this to get more input. I'm talking less about sound, and more about the punch you feel coming from the cab.

So what do you say Talkbass? Is there a difference? And if so, do you think it is worth giving punch/slam up for a lighter cab?
 
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#3
Neo magnets have MORE strength, not less.

Ferrite speakers can have more or less “punch” than Neo speakers depending on the intent of the designer.

You are making a lot of assumptions that’s are simply not true.
 
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#5
Personally, I prefer the old “Batman” speakers. Less Slam, Punch, and Heft, but more Biff, Bang, and Pow, with an occasional Kapow for when I need a little something “extra”.

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#6
If at all possible, try to make it a blind test so you're not listening with your arms & back. ;)
I haven't tried enough Neo cabs yet to have a qualified opinion. (The one I have - Bergantino HDN210 – may not slam quite like my heavier cabs. But it's a little hard to tell because they are all very different. It seems to sound better when I don't push it too hard - but I could say that about most cabs.)
I will say that before you start associating neodymium with "weak & watery", try handling a little magnet of that type. Those suckers are STRONG! One the size of a watch battery is overkill for most household uses. One the size of a hockey puck would be lethal.
 
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#7
agedhorse said:
Neo magnets have MORE strength, not less.

Ferrite speakers can have more or less “punch” than Neo speakers depending on the intent of the designer.

You are making a lot of assumptions that’s are simply not true.
Click to expand...

Not making assumptions my friend. Simply asking questions and trying to get input from players who have been around the block a time or two.

My thought is that it isn't strength causing the difference, but weight. I've read that that Neo's are quicker leading to better articulation (likely a magnet strength quality), but that's not what I'm asking.

Edit: OK, I DID use the phrase "I'm assuming" in the original post, but hopefully you understand that I am simply looking for the opinions and experiences of players who have been at this longer than I have.
 
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#9
This is like the Class D / Tube amps discussion.

I don't care if a cab is NEO or Ferite, I care about tone and weight.
For example, I think that Barefaced 10 inch drivers are ferite and the 12 inch drivers are NEO, but I'm not even sure - and I don't care.
All I know is that I love both, they are different, and I don't think each one sound the way they sound because they are made with ferite or neo.

Even if you compare 2 cabs, you won't proove anything, because "all other things being equal" don't exist for music gear.
 
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#11
gtirard said:
This is like the Class D / Tube amps discussion.

I don't care if a cab is NEO or Ferite, I care about tone and weight.
For example, I think that Barefaced 10 inch drivers are ferite and the 12 inch drivers are NEO, but I'm not even sure - and I don't care.
All I know is that I love both, they are different, and I don't think each one sound the way they sound because they are made with ferite or neo.

Even if you compare 2 cabs, you won't proove anything, because "all other things being equal" don't exist for music gear.
Click to expand...

Yep. I posted this in an effort to understand IF there is a common denominator into what makes a cab punchy. I only have a few specimens to A/B test with very few local shops in my area, making this vastly more difficult than it should be.
 
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#13
FugaziBomb said:
Punch? Heft? Slam??

What about Sparkle? Or sizzle? Snap? Do you notice a difference with "chest"?

All joking aside, I get punch, I think I get heft, but what the hell is "slam"?
Click to expand...

I see all three terms used interchangeably. It's what you feel when plucking a note, and less what you hear. All of my Neos SOUND great. But they are all vastly less fun to play because I'm not feeling them they way I'm feeling some of the old school cabs I've played recently. Last night I went to the local Music Go Round and plugged into some of the older cabs they had there, (and with exception to one), they all seemed to be punchier than the Neo's there. Again.....it's why I put the survey up. Surely other players have noticed this?

I will admit that 40 feet out (or through FOH) none of that matters (and maybe THAT is the point). But 4 feet away it definitely does make a difference.
 
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#14
To answer question, I haven't noticed specific difference playing Neo vs ceramic drivers (other than with different cab design).
As for that punch, I always asociate it with dynamic range of amp and cab, how they respond to my input. So maybe you just played through cab with older drivers that have more db output, compared to modern but weaker cab with Neo drivers?
Also, maybe cabs were just voiced (much) differently, and you prefere older one.
 
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#15
I don't think material / components really matter on a microscopic level. I don't even really make the distinction between tube and solid state these days. Before I amassed a modest collection of amps, I held tube amps in a special regard, but now I see that it is mostly a superfluous distinction in the realm of bass guitar.

There's so much that goes into the overall sound of a piece of gear that trying to generalize one specific class of component seems useless.

Tube amps can sound terrible. I have a Crate Club 30 that proves that. Solid state amps can sound awesome, in the case of a Roland Jazz Chorus or an GK RB amp. It's really best to judge the whole package and not a fractional part of what it is.
 
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#17
Nuisance said:
Last night I went to the local Music Go Round and plugged into some of the older cabs they had there, (and with exception to one), they all seemed to be punchier than the Neo's there. Again.....it's why I put the survey up. Surely other players have noticed this?

I will admit that 40 feet out (or through FOH) none of that matters (and maybe THAT is the point). But 4 feet away it definitely does make a difference.
Click to expand...
Plenty of people say they notice it, but it's not quantifiable, and it's also going to be different across a swath of 'old school' heads/cabs and even newer Class D heads/neo cabs. Gain staging and power sections can make more difference than the cab itself. Did you try the 'old school' amp of choice into a 'new school' neo cab? Did you try a Class D head into an 'old school' cabinet? Tuning of the cabinet, efficiency of the cabinet and speaker combos, yadda yadda. Way too many variables to say anything definitive, and also impossible to make empirical claims playing old gear in a music store environment. 'Bedroom tone' and 'music store tone' are variables for sure. I feel like my newer Class D MarkBass gear is way punchier and more 'present' than my old SWR and Eden gear was. I've also used my older SWR and Eden heads through my newer MarkBass neo cabs. I could gig those combos of old and new and be fine either way. Different colors... same me... same general 'feel'.
 
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#20
I have acquired a neo speaker recently and couldn’t say I noticed a difference from ceramic but that’s only a sample of one.
It’s possible that the first generation of neo speakers wasn’t brilliant.
I would assume that the design parameters for the drivers is different and time was needed for designers to get up to speed.
 
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