Small bar gigs .. 200W enough for stage volume?!

[Rockin Mike]

OP?

OP = Original Post

 

[smklassen0977]

OP = Original Post

Thanks!

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

Weren't the D130F speakers guitar speakers and the D140F's were specifically bass speakers? Voice coil on the 130 was aluminum and the D140 used copper windings. Biggest difference was the presence of concentric rings inside the cone of the D140F that both made it heavier and more resistant to break-ups. If I recall correctly, you could even have a D130F re-coned as a D140F because everything else was the same.

The D130F and were standard in some Fender and Sunn bass cabs (as well as others). I remember reading that the ones used in the Sunn cabs had a different number, but had the same specs as the D130F (F for Fender). Usually always in the top 10 for best bass speakers (all subjective). I use D140F now, which sound better to me and can handle more wattage.

 

[smklassen0977]

/\/\/\/\ THIS /\/\/\/\
IMHO 350 watts into a single 112 is of no substantial "gain" (pun intended) over 200 watts into the same 112

Yeah.. I get that.. With my current head, a 1x12 would be powered at 200W .. as well as the 2x10.. 200W
The jist of the conversation seems to lean toward more drivers than watts. SO honeslty I'm caught between money and weight haha..

The 2x10 is $200 @ 60lbs .. could always but another cab along with it ..
The 1x12 is $300-ish @ 30lbs .. based on conversation I'll need two .. so really $600

Based on weight, since that is more important to me, and a little more $$$ .. I will probably go with 2 of the 1x12's ..

 

[Sav'nBass]

A wise musician once told me that stage amplification approaches the inverse of venue size. The smaller venues often require basic vocal FOH support with the band largely monitoring and throttling their back line amplification, whereas the largest shows require enough onstage amplification to help the musicians stay in sync while the whole thing is sent to FOH for final output to the audience. So in reality, while Megadeth shows want to look cool to the musically unsophisticated with bank upon bank of Marshalls, their onstage volume is more along the lines of something they could fairly easily talk over without yelling.

I can say with no uncertainty that the small venues reveal an element of musicianship that's probably my top peeve, and that's the ability (or lack thereof) to self-monitor and contain one's sound to properly fit the confines of the environment, which is sadly lacking in a large majority of musical hackers from California to Maine. You want to hear a bunch of bad-a$$es? Find a group of guys (gals) that can sound like a really awesome little boom box sitting there all by its lonesome on an empty stage. When you find a band like that, you've just found nirvana, because this gang understands dynamics and more importantly understands that people aren't at the gig to hear JUST THEM as individuals. The rancid mark of a very, very, immature musician. The kind I don't play with.

That is how my band is.. we are small.. and sometimes at rehearsals it gets awkward because we have a guitarist with a real heavy strum.. but when we are actual playing out we all seem to just self monitor.. which is very cool..

I mostly use my 115 .. I have a 212 that I use for smaller stuff through either of my GB heads and it works fine..

 

[interp]

I play a Walter Woods stereo head bridged (700 watts into 8 ohms) through an 8-ohm Greenboy F112 (this cabinet is unbelievable!). Headroom galore, and the ability to fill a 300-seat room with ease. Total weight of rig--about 40 lbs. Cost--pretty high but worth it IMO.

Of course there are less spendy ways of pursuing the same objective.

 

[troy mcclure]

I have played gigs with a 280 watt Nemesis combo for years. It had 4 10s, I also had a 2 10 version same head. I normally play all gigs now with a Markbass F1 (500 Watts into 4 ohms) with a single Avatar 210 Neo. I find all these threads kind of interesting,, we talk about wattage but never our settings. I never have my gain past 9 o'clock and my volume at noon. Recently I started thinning out my sound by setting my active setup on my bass more neutral and dialing down the Bass tone on my head and my sound is way more clear.

 

[Mudcat35]

I do small gigs with both my rock and country bands with a Markbass LM-250 head and one 8-ohm Avatar 210 Neo cabinet. It's plenty loud. I never have to run the gain or master very high, either. Experiment with cabinet placement and EQ.

 

[spectorfreak]

Yeah that's what I was thinking.. Suppose it really depends on the band.. since we have a loud drummer I might be wishing I had more headroom. I like the idea of having the Hartke Hydrive 1x12 with the 8 or 4 ohm option in case I need to push a little more. I'm having a hard time finding a good demo on YouTube of a fingers player to see if I truly like it.

Keep in mind the Hydrive 12 is only rated for 300 rms, while I can vouch for their toughness, you can indeed pulverize them rather easily.

 

[phillybass101]

For several years I played/gigged through a sealed 2x10 Horizon cab rated at 230 watts RMS at 4ohms with a Trace Elliot GPSM7 300 (280 British watts) in a Funk and R&B Band. I never ran out of headroom and was even told to turn down once at one particular Bar/Grill. As someone mentioned before it think it depends on the efficiency of your cab vs how many watts your head is. 200 watts S/B plenty for small gigs. If it's not, wear ear plugs. I'm 59, been playing for 44 years and I can still hear I still use the same Horizon 2x10 for Band Practices. Best little cab I've ever bought. It's now 23 years old and still kicking.

 

[smklassen0977]

Keep in mind the Hydrive 12 is only rated for 300 rms, while I can vouch for their toughness, you can indeed pulverize them rather easily.

I'd only be putting 200W through it as a 1x12 .. with 2 1x12's I'd be putting 350W through them.. From what I understand, that should be fine at full power.

 

[spectorfreak]

I'd only be putting 200W through it as a 1x12 .. with 2 1x12's I'd be putting 350W through them.. From what I understand, that should be fine at full power.

Yeah that would be fine, just you were talking about running a single one at 4 ohms in one of your earlier posts. 2 Hydrives set at 8 ohms for a 4 ohm total resistance would be fine and probably the most satisfactory for you rather then a single one.

 

[Quadzilla]

It is if you are using 236 watts from a TC RH450, LOL!!!!! ;-)

 

[Lowbrow]

This 100w rig got me from the punk years in NYC right thru to 1993 in well heard style.

 

[D.M.N.]

The D130F and were standard in some Fender and Sunn bass cabs (as well as others). I remember reading that the ones used in the Sunn cabs had a different number, but had the same specs as the D130F (F for Fender). Usually always in the top 10 for best bass speakers (all subjective). I use D140F now, which sound better to me and can handle more wattage.

The D140F was standard in the 200s and 2000s until around 1971 when it became an upgrade. The guitar oriented amps like the 100s and Sonic I came with D130Fs, and other rigs, like the 1000s and 1500s came with the D15S, which is supposedly a Sunn specific version of the D130. However, D130Fs have been used pretty commonly with basses, though they are technically a guitar driver.

As to the OP, as said the speakers can make or break it, but I can blow the doors off a bar with 120w and an efficient 2x15. Even 60w through an efficient 2x15 will smoke a typical bar.

 

[TheRealKong]

For Bar Gigs I use my Promethean 5110. There is a 8 ohm - speaker mounted in the combo, this means 250 Watt for the amp. This is enough for smaller bar gigs.

To give more oomph to bigger venues I used to put the amp of the Promethean combo on a SWR 212" I upgraded to 700 Watt @ 4 Ohm, using two Beyma - woofers.

For a year or so I use my Markbass LM II together with the 212", no need ripping the Promethean apart every some days.

I found 110" and 250 Watt enough for small venues, let's say , about 50 - 70 people. But I love having more as I need. Better than needing more than you have.

 

[JMacBass65]

It depends.

Tube watts, or solid state watts?

 

[Lowbrow]

The D140F was standard in the 200s and 2000s until around 1971 when it became an upgrade. The guitar oriented amps like the 100s and Sonic I came with D130Fs, and other rigs, like the 1000s and 1500s came with the D15S, which is supposedly a Sunn specific version of the D130. However, D130Fs have been used pretty commonly with basses, though they are technically a guitar driver.

As to the OP, as said the speakers can make or break it, but I can blow the doors off a bar with 120w and an efficient 2x15. Even 60w through an efficient 2x15 will smoke a typical bar.

2000s Spec Sheet

 

[D.M.N.]

2000s Spec Sheet View attachment 679578 View attachment 679578

Yep, that's the spec sheet for the 1968 model, since they switched to 6550s and introduced the bass boost in '69. I should correct myself as well, the D140F was standard until 1970, when Vega drivers became standard and the JBLs became upgrades.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

The D130F and were standard in some Fender and Sunn bass cabs (as well as others). I remember reading that the ones used in the Sunn cabs had a different number, but had the same specs as the D130F (F for Fender). Usually always in the top 10 for best bass speakers (all subjective). I use D140F now, which sound better to me and can handle more wattage.

Back in the early 70's when I kept blowing the 12" Jensen speakers in my 66 Bassman, I looked into getting the JBL replacement speakers. As far as bass cabs at the time, the only Fender amp that used the JBL speakers was the Fender Dual Showman which came with the D130F speakers but you could get it with the D140F's specifically for use with a bass. That's what I was looking for. I was hoping to buy one at Hospe Music in Lincoln, Nebraska in 1971 because my '66 Bassman couldn't keep up with the rest of the group. Hospe Music was out of stock and their other store in Omaha had sold their last one the day before. I tried everything they had in their "bass basement" ended up with a Standel amp (using ported enclosure with 2 x 15" speakers) that was better than the dual showman anyhow.

Regarding Sunn, the D15S was a re-badged D130.

According to Harvey Gerst, here's the story on the D130 vs D130F speakers. Since Fender was buying most of JBL's D130's (originally designed as full orchestral range speakers) for their dual showman line and were experiencing trouble with the surrounds drying out in outdoor use, he wanted to design new speakers that were specifically for guitar and specifically for bass. He figured at the time that the range for guitars was 80Hz to 6Khz and rated the power-handling figures for use in that range. So the new D130F was a different speaker specifically designed for guitar amplification use and not the same as the D130. It was a more robust speaker design to stand up to outside use. Rather than give the new series of "musical instrument use" speakers a different number (thought that might cause marketing concerns for Fender), he just added an F to the existing number and came up with the D140F for the 15" bass speaker. The D in the number stands for the metal Dome and the F designates it as the new musical instrument speaker. It was specifically designed because of Fender - thus the "F", but was also used by other companies too. Fender like this a lot because it solved the problems they were having with the surrounds of the cones, had a higher wattage rating and could be said to have been specially designed by JBL for Fender.