The Xlson is also a side address, unfortunately it’s quite expensive, especially now that the new Remic is available if only for a brief time.
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Double Bass Small Diaphram Condensers For Double Bass
- Thread starter Ric Vice
- Start date
The Xlson is also a side address, unfortunately it’s quite expensive, especially now that the new Remic is available if only for a brief time.
The Schoeps that everyone loves is a "supercardioid" , anyone know if theres a big difference between hyper and super?
Well here's a chart that may help. It appears that a Supercardioid has a bit more rejection than the Hypercardioid. Then it's also a Schoeps.
So to summarize the upshot, can it be said: the more directional a microphone's capsule
Missing high points?
- The better it is for close micing a double bass because it minimizes picking up loud noise on the side
- Subject to proximity effect, which for double bass, must be addressed with HPF and EQ adjustments.
- Potential downside: side noise that is picked up does not have the same sonic fidelity as side noise picked up by an omni capsule.
Missing high points?
I would say you have this backwards. Omnis are better for close miking. The closer the mic is to the sound source you want the mic to "hear," the less significant the bleed from other sources... that is, as the mic gets closer, the proportion of desired sound to undesired sound becomes greater.
Hmm yeah, I wonder if thats part of why its works better for Grenadier (+ the others that use it) than other similarly "nice" mics.
Actually, I agree with you! But if this is so, why are many double bassists so interested in using directional mics for their close placement with H-Clamp, various contraptions or just a piece of foam to hold it in place next to the bass? Many times it seems like using omni isn't a consideration.
The correct answer varies with the situation and your goals. Sometimes an omni is better and sometimes a directional mic is better. I believe the only place I have ever used omnis in a live setting is drum overheads, and the drummer was on the back of fairly deep stages.
If you are playing solo, the omni will most likely sound better closer to the instrument. The directional mic may focus in too narrowly on the instrument so you really don't get a true representation of the composite sound produced by the total instrument. Also the directional mic rejects more of the room, which might actually be pleasing.
If the omni is too far from the instrument, it will most likely pick up too much of the room and not enough of the instrument.
If you are playing with an ensemble you may be willing to accept some of these trade offs in order to benefit from the superior off axis-rejection of the directional mic. Basically you use the directional mic closer than it's optimal distance in order to focus on your primary sound source and maximize rejection of bleed from other instruments.
You should also consider the inverse square law: For every doubling of the distance from the sound source in a free field situation, the sound intensity will diminish by 6 decibels. This has some relevance because you may be able to place the omni mic closer to the instrument and still get a decent sound.
I am used to performing in mostly loud settings with a fairly powerful amp. I would be very surprised to find any mic or mic techique that would meet my expectations in a big band setting, and yes I have experimented with some nice mics. But plenty people seem to think mics work fine on bass in big band. They have a different philosophy, use a different approach, and have different goals.
While I agree with all the above, the move has been to design musical instrument microphones with as much cancellation from the rear and sides as possible for live performance. The Schoeps is the industry standard for recording live music
on a film sound stage. So we have the DPA 4099 Dvote Core, the AMT35, ATM SP25B, and Xlson. The DPA and Xlson have incredible isolation with the ATM 35 and AMT SB25 B lesser isolation but better warmth IMHO. While the Nadine and Remic sound
the best to my ears, and have better feedback resistance. Neither Remic or Nadine identify what pickup pattern they use in their particular design. Omni's sound wonderful in the studio and if you aren't playing loud or dealing with drums they sound pretty
great. My personal choice is based as much on how the microphone mounts on my bass as how it sounds. That's why the Remic's my go to microphone. Just my take however. Most of out trouble isn't really with the microphone, the culprit is having to use
a onstage amplifier, to the side of us ( because most monitoring systems sound terrible) so regardless of the type of microphone's capsule, it will eventually feed back.
on a film sound stage. So we have the DPA 4099 Dvote Core, the AMT35, ATM SP25B, and Xlson. The DPA and Xlson have incredible isolation with the ATM 35 and AMT SB25 B lesser isolation but better warmth IMHO. While the Nadine and Remic sound
the best to my ears, and have better feedback resistance. Neither Remic or Nadine identify what pickup pattern they use in their particular design. Omni's sound wonderful in the studio and if you aren't playing loud or dealing with drums they sound pretty
great. My personal choice is based as much on how the microphone mounts on my bass as how it sounds. That's why the Remic's my go to microphone. Just my take however. Most of out trouble isn't really with the microphone, the culprit is having to use
a onstage amplifier, to the side of us ( because most monitoring systems sound terrible) so regardless of the type of microphone's capsule, it will eventually feed back.
Here you can find the lead, that the red Remic is also an omnidirectional microphone, while the green line features an angled figured eight...
And this article about choosing "the right microphone" isn't sooo "uninteresting" either...
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Sorry.. I picked the wrong URL ....
I just meant this one...Perhaps I should write here only after breakfast...
All the mic characteristics in the chart by Ric (except the shotgun which is a special design) are basically a mix between two extremes, the Omni and the figure of eight.
To bring them in order:
Omni
Wide cardioid (Subcardioid)
Cardioid
Supercardioid
Hypercardioid
Figure of eight
Omni is 100% Omni, 0% Fig-of-8,
Cardioid is 50% of each,
Fig-of-8 is 0% Omni, 100% Fig-of-8.
The others are in between.
The supercardioid is rather uncommon compared to the hypercardioid. Therefor I assume the hypercardioid is 25%/75%, but better check that yourself.
Some LDCs can be set to any mix of Omni and Fig-of-8 characteristic.
The back of the figure of eight, Hypercardioid and Supercardioid (basically a Unix in which the Fig-of-8 part is larger than the Omni part) have an inverse polarity which could not be seen in the chart. That can help a bit cancelling feedback from a monitor.
Ok.. I asked Roger Jönsson about a hypercardioid version of the CM4, but sadly there will be no one in the near future..
He is struggling to keep up with order as it is, he says... Maybe later there will be one, but not now..
Ok.. I asked Roger Jönsson about a hypercardioid version of the CM4, but sadly there will be no one in the near future..
Like “Curly” said, “do one thing and do it right” CM4’s
Speaking of the Line Audio mics, I've been loaning my CM3's out to folks to try and everyone loves them. Do they still have to be ordered directly from Sweden, or is there an easier way?
I purchased all mine from EBay he’s now building the CM4 which is the update to,the CM3 and just as great.
