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Small Guy; Light Cab +Big Sound

danyosound

danyosound

Jun 9, 2014
103
90
49
Echo Park, CA
#1
I weigh 115 pounds. My SWR 410 weighs 95 pounds.
I killed my back last month (it's better now). I'm approaching 40 but I'm otherwise in good health.
I need something lighter that won't kill my pocketbook. Familiar problem?(!): -- I want to spend $300-500.
My amp: Genz Benz Streamliner 600. -- 375 watts at 8 ohms; 600 watts at 4 ohms.
I play small to large clubs in LA (Echoplex, Troubadour). Only one guitarist.
My sound: I'm not a tone snob on bass. I require to be heard clearly and separately. The rest is pedals.
If I didn't have to lift a finger I would use 8x10 or 8x8.

Options:

1
Originally I considered one or a pair of Avatar B210s at 8 ohms stacked vertically with Faitals.
One B210 would be $500 to ship. Two would eventually cost me $1000. -- 50 pounds each.

2
I almost bought a used GB Neox 210 at 4 ohms for $500 shipped. -- 50 pounds.
I worried that two speakers might not be enough speakers in larger (or outdoor) circumstances, and that at 4 ohms it might be too much for smaller gigs (is that really a problem?). Genz Benz cabs are becoming scarce..

3
I would consider one GB Neox or NX2 212 at 4 ohms. Prices are over $600 shipped. -- 50-55 pounds.
Same issues with option 2.

4
I would consider GB 1288t at 8 ohms. Prices are $500-600 shipped. -- 60 pounds. (No casters!)
Same issues with options 2 and 3. I like the idea of 8" speakers....
I've read that this cab sounds different than others. That might not bother me if the sound is clear.

5
Faital Neo 10PR300 speakers to put in my SWR Workingman's 410 Price for 4 is $300 shipped.
-- The Avatar B410 cab with ceramic speakers is 95 pounds; with Faital neo is 65 pounds.
  • I'm guessing that since the B410 and my SWR are the same weight, that the Faitals will also make the SWR weigh 65 pounds. 65 pounds is an improvement but may still be too heavy.
    The SWR has casters, so lifting mostly means getting it in my car.
  • Replacing speakers in a cabinet they were not designed for is a hot subject around here.
    What am I gaining? what am I losing? I feel drawn toward the Faitals for some reason....
  • This is the cheapest solution...
6
Low Down Sound 4x8 with neodymiums. Not sure the price, the weight, or if 8s would suffice.
Let's call it a dream.

Discussion
  • My guitarist plays a Fender DeVille with 212s. I want to kick ass without being overpowering.
  • The SWR 410 is sufficient for my amp, but is too heavy.
  • -- With Faitals, the 410 might be ok.
  • I've read that most 212s are about as good as most 410s, but they are scarce or expensive.
  • -- The Avatar 212 cabs look bulky (and hideous), and don't have casters -- 55 pounds. $530
  • Will one 210 be enough for most situations (since the larger clubs mic the bass cabs anyway)?

What is the best option given these circumstances? Are there suitable alternatives that won't break me financially?

Thanks TB community!
 
#3
Your back might be better now but it's been damaged/weakened and heavy lifting will cause more damage in the future.

I've been through this cycle (several times) and now the limit for my damaged back is my approx 40 lb 212 cab. This is about the heaviest I can comfortably lift and I also bought a cart. I felt much better lifting my 2 30lb 112 cabs so I guess my next rig will be centered around multiple 112 cabs.

I went with Bergantino and now also have a Barefaced cab. These are some of the best cabs for weight, tone and volume.
 
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#5
The Barefaced products look attractive, but the price for small manufacturers is prohibitive in general, especially when shipping overseas.

Chris_B is on the right track though. Even though my back feels fine now, I wonder how it will hold up as I age.

2x10 still seems like the best. 2x8 and 4x8 also seem possible if the weight and price is right.
 
#6
Went through something very similar and had a Streamliner 600 for a bit. The Avatar 210 is a kicking cab, and would cover most situations, but I found it was a bit difficult to lift. The problem with a lot of nicer light cabs is they aren't all that ergonomic for someone super conscious of lifting. The best layout I've had is the new Fender Rumble 210...the size and handle placement makes for ideal lifting. I would actually go with that before the Avatar.

My answer to the initial phase of post-injury was (and still is a lot of the time) a pair of Ampeg 210AVs. Two of them side by side gives you the traditional 410 presence, with the sealed vibe of an 8x10. And they are 26lbs each. A pair is a little higher than your budget, but you can find deals on them. The Streamliner needs a lot of speaker area in my experience.
 
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#9
Given the weight deal, I would look at various neo 1x12s, and stack as needed. You could do the same with 10s I suppose. I find that often it isn't the weight, rather the size and distribution (how much I have to lean over to put the thing in the back of a Mini Cooper) that matters. I can manage the Berg CN212 but for smallish gigs prefer the 1x12 Nearful at 30-something pounds.
 
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#11
danyosound said:
The Barefaced products look attractive, but the price for small manufacturers is prohibitive in general, especially when shipping overseas.

Chris_B is on the right track though. Even though my back feels fine now, I wonder how it will hold up as I age.

2x10 still seems like the best. 2x8 and 4x8 also seem possible if the weight and price is right.
Click to expand...


I'm down the street from you. I have a Barefaced Super Compact and a Super Midget. I also just got my hands on a Hathor 1203, which is considerably cheaper. You are welcome to pop over to check them out if we can align schedules.

A single Super Compact would handle the 212 guitar volumes you are dealing with (I put mine up against a similar rig, using a Genz Shuttle 9.0). I can't speak to the Hathor as a stand alone, but two can be had for the price of a single Super Compact.

I'd stay away from 4 ohm cabs and look for a modular 2x 8ohm rig. Going from 8 to 4 ohms in a single cab gains you some headroom, but only 3db of volume at the most.
 
#12
danyosound said:
The Barefaced products look attractive, but the price for small manufacturers is prohibitive in general, especially when shipping overseas.

Chris_B is on the right track though. Even though my back feels fine now, I wonder how it will hold up as I age.

2x10 still seems like the best. 2x8 and 4x8 also seem possible if the weight and price is right.
Click to expand...

You might want to try some exercises, like Yoga, or even some mild weight lifting to strengthen you leg muscles. I'm a little guy too, and exercises to strengthen your back and legs really helped me out. Lifting properly( using your legs mostly ) also helps to avoid back strain. But, lighter gear is definitely a plus for us little guys !
 
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#13
I am a fan of the Phil Jones C4. It weighs about 24 pounds. I replaced my Markbass 410 with this... it's a stretch to move to something so small, but I was definitely impressed. It supports a sustainable 400 watts RMS... not peak.
 
#16
If you're remotely handy and have a few weeks to spare you might want to look into a pair of these. You'll need to buy the drivers and some other things but the speakers are amazingly efficient. My 210 has me dominating the mix with a 160W tube amp not cranked (not ear destroying volume, but slow erosion of hearing volume). I made it through a rehearsal running through a Valve Jr. and could hear myself on all but 2 songs (it sounded really bad unless I wanted it really dirty, but I could hear).

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Support for the build at billfitzmaurice.com forum.
 
#17
Zooberwerx said:
I like the idea of (2) stacked 2 X 10's or 1 X 12's as a lightweight modular gig-capable rig.
Click to expand...
I agree wholeheartedly. Even if the total weight of your rig ends up being the same, it's a lot easier to lift two small cabs one at a time than one big one. I've always hated the bulk of 4x10 cabs at least as much as the weight; getting it through a narrow stairway or hall always seems to require two people.
 
#18
My opinion is if you like the sound of 10's you'll have to make a compromise when moving to bigger speakers. Guys remember I said this is my opinion. Please do not respond with how well 12's sound with new cabinet technology. I currently run a Tecamp M212 and it weighs 47lbs. I DID make a compromise. If I were you I'd get two neo configured 2x10 8ohm cabs.
 
#19
I would search around for a used GB Neox212. Those things are reputed to compete with 410 volume, are light and even have tilt-back casters.

I'd also check out the GK CX210 at 37lbs and $350 brand new. If the volume is wanting buy another one later. Actually their 410MBE is only $300 and 60 lbs, though i don't know about the sonic differences between these series.

Otherwise 2 112 cabs that are individually heavier but separately lighter would still save your back if you make an extra car-to-venue trip.
 
#20
jnewmark said:
You might want to try some exercises, like Yoga, or even some mild weight lifting to strengthen you leg muscles. I'm a little guy too, and exercises to strengthen your back and legs really helped me out. Lifting properly( using your legs mostly ) also helps to avoid back strain. But, lighter gear is definitely a plus for us little guys !
Click to expand...

I agree, regular maintenance is key.
Sounds counterintuitive, but lighter gear is definitely a plus for a bigger guy as well. I'm about 6' 200lbs. Like many guys my size and bigger, I've had back problems since I hit my full size as a teenager. I've got no business deadlifting a 410 off the ground.
 

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