Smoking in Bars

[Meyatch]

Still not getting it? Smoking is legal there. You are saying that the law shouldn't be able to make it illegal. You are saying that the bar owners should decide. The reason the law wants to make it illegal is for the same reason it has made other things illegal. If the bar owners had the power to decide whether they want smoking in their bars or not (rather than the government telling them they can't), then the other things such as discrimination, etc., should not be illegal either and should be left up to the bar owner to decide. Thinking the bar owners should be able to choose to allow smoking or not (something harmful to others) but also thinking they should NOT be able to choose to allow discrimination, use of dangerous chemicals, etc. or not (something harmful to others) is completely hypocritical.

Its not hypocritical at all. I think the bar should follow the law. Which in this instance means not punching gay people, not poisoning soup, and allowing smoking if they choose to.

As tZer pointed out, all your comparisons to soup and beef and gays are equally as nonsensical as my attempt to compare it to loud noise. "smoking stands alone"

I don't even really have an opposition to the smoking ban, provided everyone understands that the only way it can come about is as an employee health issue, or in a state wide vote, which may have something to do with health issues, or it may have equally or more to do with people just not likeing it.

Personally I'd love to see more non-smoking bars, and more bars with decent ventilation.

Or if they do come up with a ban here, I'd like to see smoking licenses offered. One out of three, or something like that.

I actually think they just voted on it here, considering I havn't heard anything I guess its failed. However if anyone knows differently, tell me.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Its not hypocritical at all. I think the bar should follow the law. Which in this instance means not punching gay people, not poisoning soup, and allowing smoking if they choose to.

But the government already has laws regarding the safety of employees/public. The smoking bans are just applying and enforcing these laws that already exist. This should have happened a long time ago.

Your "loud noise" example isn't actually nonsensical- that's why there are volume restrictions for most venues. Going past them to a point where hearing damage can occur (harming the patrons) is not legal. The exceptions being musical venues that must operate at high volumes to service the entire audience (this would be akin to a smoke shop having to allow smoking as it is an integral part of their business). Smoking is one of the very few things around that needlessly harms employees/patrons that has not been made illegal. The idea is to not needlessly harm employees or patrons, and to not merely brush off this responsibility by telling employees or patrons that they should just go elsewhere if they don't like it.

 

[BassyBill]

Unfortunately the bans will continue until smoking is deemed illegal.

I think you're right. Smokers are fast becoming one of the most demonised and bullied groups in our society, mainly by people wishing to make political capital from an easy target. Whilst the smokers are there to bully, it won't stop. If conditions eventually result in the habit more or less disappearing, then another group of folks will become the primary target. My guess would be drinkers.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

You guys really think that they would out and out ban smoking?

I doubt it, they aint going to ban something that brings in that much tax money!

 

[Visirale]

You guys really think that they would out and out ban smoking?

I doubt it, they aint going to ban something that brings in that much tax money!

If they could make more money from it being prohibited, I bet they would. Think how much tax they could make if they ended cannabis prohibition? But way too many tax dollars and jobs are tied up in making sure it stays illegal and those who do use it get prosecuted and we can fill up our prisons with more non-violent offenders. Hell, there are corporate prisons now! There are companies profiting off of people rotting in these jail cells.

But I agree... I don't see them being able to make any money off it being illegal... so It'll remain.

 

[tZer]

Meytach - to be clear - I've not really taking up issue with Mr. Tylers examples as you've done a fine job pointing out how some of his more extreme analogs have simply not be spot on. I understand his intent, like yours, in trying to make these analogous connections, but like yours, his are falling just short of the center of the target.

Smoking is an assault, like smacking someone, but it's one that does not carry an obvious physical relationship between two people so it's not recognized to be as heinous as if I were to walk up to another person and smack them. It's a passive assault that is more the equivalent of me being able to put a smack into the air with no specific target in mind and allow it to simply seek out someone at random and deliver the blow impersonally.

As for the comparison to a restaurant being allowed to serve spoiled food because the public accepts it and some people even like it - his point is not far off base. The government is responsible for putting measures in place that prevent known negative health issues where possible with regard to places where the public gathers. Lead paint and asbestos are removed from schools, homes and businesses - food is scrutinized and held to standards that are designed to prevent things like food poisoning and so on.

But because we only refer to cigarette smoking as "smoking" and not "airborne distribution of substances known to cause health problems when inhaled, like ammonia, arsenic, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, acetone, tar and nicotine" we don't see a 'significant risk' when a "smoking allowed" sign is in the window. It's just another sign - no big deal. There can't be any real harm in it because if there was, this place would not permitted to allow such a thing.

You could say it's up to the public to educate themselves about the real nature of cigarette smoke and it's negative health impact so that when they see a "smoking allowed" sign, they understand it better - but we don't say the same thing about understanding the negative health impact of things like salmonellae or e-coli - we assume agencies like the FDA are ensuring we won't be exposed to such things when we go out to eat. We also would not stand for business to be allowed to get away with serving such things by just putting a sign somewhere that says it could happen.

 

[KsToaDangr]

Just felt like throwing my opinion into this debacle. As a smoker(Camel Filters, just under a pack a day), I halfway agree with banning smoking in public places. My favorite coffee shop banned smoking inside, and I had no problem with it. My workplace(an adult video store) used to allow smoking inside, but the owners decided that staff members were spending too much time smoking and not enough watching customers. Seeing as how I work by myself for 16 hours straight twice a week, that irritates me a little, but that's another story all together. Next month, a citywide ban on smoking indoors at public places that serve food goes into effect here. I agree with the ban except for three places. There is a pool hall that I frequent, and have been going to since I was 5. They serve beer, sodas, and snack food(candy bars, honey buns, and chips). When the smoking ban goes into effect, they will become non-smoking just because of this. One of the only 5 places around here for bands to play at serves wings and fries, mostly because the bands that play there complained about there not being a place to get food within a 5 mile radius. It's a small dive bar, and every member of the staff smokes. The third place is a bar that I go to roughly once a week. They sell single slices of pizza in conjunction with the pizza place a block away. At any given time, there is only 1 staff member inside the building, because it's a small place. I was discussing the smoking ban with the manager a few days ago(he smokes as well), and he is opposed to the ban because he will have to hire either a whole new staff of non-smokers, or hire a second staff of bartenders because the entire staff smokes, and he refuses to let the bartenders leave the bar untended. He also makes quite a bit of money selling cigarettes behind the bar.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I was discussing the smoking ban with the manager a few days ago(he smokes as well), and he is opposed to the ban because he will have to hire either a whole new staff of non-smokers, or hire a second staff of bartenders because the entire staff smokes, and he refuses to let the bartenders leave the bar untended. He also makes quite a bit of money selling cigarettes behind the bar.

Employers having to fire employees because they can't control their addictions while on the job isn't anything new. Unless he's paying them under the table, they should have some breaks during their shift to smoke.

 

[banditcosmo]

Bringing an old thread back...

In Virginia a smoking ban just went into effect for restaurants and bars and just played my first gig since it went into effect and while it was really really nice to go home from a gig not smelling like cigarettes one effect of the ban is less people in the place watching us play as there was a big crowd of smokers outside. Anyone else notice this effect of a smoking ban ?

 

[Absentia]

Petition the bars to install more adequate ventilation, or quit complaining.

 

[banditcosmo]

Petition the bars to install more adequate ventilation, or quit complaining.

not complaining just making an observation thank you !

 

[TheVoiceless]

Watch out for the Nazi anti smokers!!! They should ban smoking forever and arrest and torture people who do smoke because they are not real people and should die, or at least that's what the Nazi anti smokers want. Bottom line if a place wants to allow smoking they should be able. You have the right to choose if you want to play or eat at their place. And for some reason I can not understand how we can fly to mars but not create smoke eaters that can clear a cloudy room.

After they ban smoking what are all the cry babies gonna complain about next? The fact no one comes to their shows cause drinks are over priced and smokers are treated like second class citizens?

 

[Absentia]

Watch out for the Nazi anti smokers!!! They should ban smoking forever and arrest and torture people who do smoke because they are not real people and should die, or at least that's what the Nazi anti smokers want. Bottom line if a place wants to allow smoking they should be able. You have the right to choose if you want to play or eat at their place. And for some reason I can not understand how we can fly to mars but not create smoke eaters that can clear a cloudy room.

After they ban smoking what are all the cry babies gonna complain about next? The fact no one comes to their shows cause drinks are over priced and smokers are treated like second class citizens?

Probably soft drinks, they've been working on guns for a while, butter, wait got it... any sex that's anything other than missionary and for procreation... I hate procreation and missionary

Oh and Bandit that wasn't directed at you.
It's going to be sad when all the upholstered toilet crap bars I go to play at close. Hard enough to get anyone to come to shows that don't have 2$ PBRs

 

[BassyBill]

So, I sat in with an indie-rock trio last night, they are trying to decide if they want a bass player or not. Anyway, the bar we played at allows smoking, so I was basically trapped in a cigarette hot box for 3+ hours, it was really gross. I do not smoke, and this is the first time that I have played at this particular bar. Just curious if anyone has any recommendations for curbing the "second hand smoke" hangover that I have had all morning? In my opinion, people should not be allowed to smoke in bars, or any indoor public place, for the record.

You could just start smoking.

 

[Absentia]

You could just start smoking.

I've smoked for over ten years and still get the tobacco hangover.

 

[MatticusMania]

I smoke on occasion, mostly when Im drinking. I'm glad they dont allow smoking in bars in Ca. If I want a smoke I can easily go outside for a few minutes and do so, then go back inside to a smoke free enviroment where I can breathe freely and not force my second hand smoke upon others. Its the polite thing to do anyways, not all people smoke, and smokers should have that consideration for others. Some people want a beer or cocktail without the smoke cloud, some want to see a band without having to endure hours of others fog. Smoking has been banned in Ca for longer than I have been allowed in bars (over 4 years). Though, there is still the occasional bar that (illegally) allows their patrons to smoke inside at the bar.

 

[Truktek2]

They are.

 

[mcapote]

So, I sat in with an indie-rock trio last night, they are trying to decide if they want a bass player or not. Anyway, the bar we played at allows smoking, so I was basically trapped in a cigarette hot box for 3+ hours, it was really gross. I do not smoke, and this is the first time that I have played at this particular bar. Just curious if anyone has any recommendations for curbing the "second hand smoke" hangover that I have had all morning? In my opinion, people should not be allowed to smoke in bars, or any indoor public place, for the record.

its illegal here but they do it anyways I just get home and throw my clothes in the washer before going to bed, take a shower and sleep. I wake up fine with the exception of a throat the feels like the beginning of a cold for the first couple hours.

 

[tZer]

...Just curious if anyone has any recommendations for curbing the "second hand smoke" hangover that I have had all morning?

+1 on bringing a fan. Even though you can't eliminate the smoke, you can keep the air moving around you so you don't end up sitting in a cloud.

Between sets head for the door and enjoy the fresh air. In winter that can be a drag, but to me it beats the smoke. I make sure I bring a nice heavy coat - and I leave it in the car to keep it from getting all funked up. Most of my band doesn't smoke so if we're in a place to allows it, we all head out to someone's vehicle and hang until it's time for the next set.

While I really hate being in a bar with no circulation and a thick haze of 2nd hand smoke but I also hate not socializing between sets - to I'll suffer the smoke a little - but I make frequent visits outside to clear the lungs and rejuvenate.

On the flip side - in smoke-free bars I'll frequently go outside to the smoking areas with my smoking friends and hang between sets. But being outside is far easier to take than being boxed in.

That's really the only way to diminish the negative effects of playing in a smoker-friendly bar.

 

[BassyBill]

They are.

Quote fail.

Understandable, under the circumstances.