So, I'm not sure I get EMG.

[Dirk Diggler]

That's why there are tone controls available for EMG's.
It's easier to roll off high end should it be offensive.
If the pickup has less highs, you can't boost your way out that problem. (Well without distortion)

 

[dwizum]

I thought I remember reading that EMG took advantage of the on board preamp by going with weaker magnets and/or less winding, using the preamp to make up the lower signal.

That's about right. They are essentially designed for tone, and use the preamp to compensate for the lower output level that is a side effect of the tone-based design. EMG's classic design, which is repeated in most of their pickups, is a pair of coils on a weak magnet, usually stacked, and wired in parallel with slightly different preamps on each coil. Two coils means humbucking. Stacked is less ideal for output level (the bottom coil is pretty far from the action) but fine for noise reduction. Parallel and weaker magnets mean less output but the preamps fix that. Parallel and weak magnets also means less color in the tone and more of the hard-to-preserve high frequencies are retained. And separate, biased preamps means they can blend the tone of the two coils to get the results they want.

If you grabbed a talented EE off the street, someone who knew their stuff but hadn't been raised on classic pickup designs and wasn't biased by them, and you asked them to develop a pickup format that provided the most possible flexibility in tones and output levels, they'd give you EMG's recipe book.

 

[Maestro29]

No one has mentioned the Geezer Butler pickups yet, which are very close to perfect.

I have a set of Geezer pickups in my P bass right now. As you said, they’re pretty close to perfect, especially with the tone rolled back a bit. It’s a beautiful smooth sound with enough punch to cut through.

 

[The Expendable Clay]

EMG active pickups, at least the ones I've used, and I've used several, are on the bright side. YouTube demos show them as being noticeably brighter than other pickups.

I think their architecture is great - low output passive pickup wind with an on-board buffer preamp. But for some reason they have left them to be bright, bright, bright.

I would think they could over several tone flavors (dark, medium, bright) just with variations to the preamp. But apparently they don't.

What am I missing?

All the P and J pickups have an alnico version and a ceramic and steel version that are more traditional sounding. Check out the PA or the PAX and you'll see that not all EMGs are super bright.
Also tone knobs are cool. Turn it down.

 

[JimmyM]

Not every pickup is made for everyone. It’s OK not to like everything.

 

[Altitude]

No one has mentioned the Geezer Butler pickups yet, which are very close to perfect.

One way they aren't perfect is the odd choice of endorser name. They're actually based on Bobby Vega's pickups, not Butler's, but Butler "liked them so much he agreed to lend his name to them."

I've no idea at all what the agreement behind the scenes might be between EMG and Vega, but if Butler is getting paid on those sales and Vega isn't, that kind of stinks.

The pickups do sound good though.

 

[JRA]

What am I missing?

not sure --- "bright, bright, bright" is something that you should be able to dial back, and you should be able to dial-in what you do like with EMGs. you might be overly critical/sensitive -or- something is wrong with the wiring, a pickup, and/or a pre-amp. IMO, you don't have to prefer active EMGs to appreciate their versatility.

I quit using them because I just don't like to deal with active systems and batteries.

...so it's a moot issue for you? why the thread?

 

[JW56789]

I'll take EMG's any time I can get them.

If a particular set is bright (I've had that P/J set with a BTS system on an ash-bodied bass, PLENTY bright), that's fine with me, as I'd rather have something bright I can quiet down, than trying to whip some muddy mess into a useable tone. As long as I can start with very quiet and very clear, I'm good, I can do the rest.

 

[brianrost]

I have EMG's in a Yamaha P type bass with an EMG BTC preamp. I wouldn't necessarily call the pickups bright. I would call them clear.

That's my take.

I've used EMGs in Steinbergers (custom wind, passive tone), NS Radius (custom wind, with BT active EQ) and their standard PJ set (passive tone) in a G&L. In all cases very clear and well defined. With roundwounds, they give that "piano string" sound. Rolling off the passive tone control reduces the treble but not the definition as is common with many passive pickups. With the active EQ in the NS Radius, rolling off the treble sounds similar.

 

[micguy]

No one has mentioned the Geezer Butler pickups yet, which are very close to perfect.

The Geezers, although made by EMG, are a clone of a particular Fender pickup, albeit with different manufacturing techniques. They're not active - they're very much not in EMG's normal wheelhouse.

What a lot of people don't get about pickups is that there are a few important things - the magnets, pole pieces, and their orientation are important. Also important are the windings - wire type, number of turns, whether they're scatter wound, etc. But the other bits - the plastic, or fiberboard, all that stuff does is hold other things in place - so long as it's not conductive or magnetic, it does nothing to or for the sound of the pickup. The wire insulation is also in that category - you may like the nostalgia of cloth wire, but it does nothing to or for the sound of your instrument. What EMG has done with the GZR is take the important stuff of a Fender design (so it sounds like the Fender design), and use modern materials for the non-important stuff.

 

[IBJammin]

As a lot of people have said, there is a very wide range of pickups with a wide range of tone from EMG. I believed the "harsh", "brittle", "sterile" reputation they had until I started experimenting myself. To my ears, HZs seem to live up to that reputation. DC, CS, P soap bars got progressively less "harsh" (in that order). Of those I liked the P the best. Note those are all ceramic magnets. For one bass I ended up with 808s - 8 string active guitar alnico pickups. T/T/B/V (each pickup has its own passive tone roll off, then combined at the balancer, then master volume). Another bass I have a pair of HZA7s - 7 string passive alnico. One guitar I have has HZ1A/HZ2A passive alnico pair. Another guitar I replaced the ceramic 81/60 pair with alnico 85/58 pair.

 

[TuneIn]

Sounds like your missing the opportunity to select the right flavor pickup, for the intended musical application.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

The EMGs I used were PJ and J sets. Standard issue active EMG.

I thought I remember reading that EMG took advantage of the on board preamp by going with weaker magnets and/or less winding, using the preamp to make up the lower signal. The advantage is no magnetic string drag and lower inductance. Sonically they give deeper lows and more extended highs. That's what I remember.

I quit using them because I just don't like to deal with active systems and batteries.

I had exactly the same experience with a PJ set in an P Bass we routed for a J pickup. The active EMG set added some extra top end zing and a smoother, fatter low end than the Dimarzios they replaced, which replaced the stock pickup.

In my case, I didn't install a battery box, the battery was under the pickguard. The combo of the battery and the extra pot required by the J pickup made for a very tight fit, and removing the pickguard and loosening all the strings to replace the battery was a real PITA. The battery actually lasted a long time, for those who remembered to UNPLUG THE BASS when not in use.

That said, my current favorite bass is using EMG, but they're passive GZR's.

 

[yodedude2]

i had a 'plain' set of old emg 'p' pickups for a long time. they sounded the same regardless of whatever bass i put them in--a real ear-opener for me, personally. i ended up getting a new washburn xb-100 on sale for 99 bucks, put the emgs in it, and gigged that for a couple of years. sounded...like all the other basses i had put the emgs in

 

[littlebun]

EMG active pickups, at least the ones I've used, and I've used several, are on the bright side. YouTube demos show them as being noticeably brighter than other pickups.

I think their architecture is great - low output passive pickup wind with an on-board buffer preamp. But for some reason they have left them to be bright, bright, bright.

I would think they could over several tone flavors (dark, medium, bright) just with variations to the preamp. But apparently they don't.

What am I missing?

A friend of mine was complaining about his EMG's so I told him to back down his tone control. I like having the highs at my disposal.

 

[Relayer71]

EMG active pickups, at least the ones I've used, and I've used several, are on the bright side. YouTube demos show them as being noticeably brighter than other pickups.

I think their architecture is great - low output passive pickup wind with an on-board buffer preamp. But for some reason they have left them to be bright, bright, bright.

I would think they could over several tone flavors (dark, medium, bright) just with variations to the preamp. But apparently they don't.

What am I missing?

You may be missing tone controls.

They CAN be bright, but that can easily be toned down. Unless you're the kind who puts everything on 10.

 

[darwin-bass]

IMO, you don't have to prefer active EMGs to appreciate their versatility.
...so it's a moot issue for you? why the thread?

Because I find the topic interesting. Quest for knowledge. Wanted to widen my horizon and perhaps learn something new.

 

[darwin-bass]

Some great replies to the question I didn't ask. Standard TB thread drift, I suppose.

Just to clarify - What I don't (completely) get is why EMG hasn't done more with their embedded preamp. I totally get EMG pickups. I don't get why they didn't take the concept further.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

What more needs to be done to the built in pre??????
Oh wait a tone control maybe?

 

[dwizum]

What I don't (completely) get is why EMG hasn't done more with their embedded preamp.

In an active pickup, the preamp essentially has two design goals.

First, buffer the signal. The preamp acts to isolate the pickup coil from the rest of the wiring between it and your amp's speaker(s). This isolation gives the pickup designer more reliable control over tone, in the sense that they know you're going to get what they designed, instead of your bass's wiring, your cable, etc putting a load on the coil and changing the tone. Take a passive pickup and put it in a bass with 250k passive controls and a mile long cable and it'll sound totally different from the same pickup in a bass with 500k controls and a good short cable. The buffing function of the preamp in an active pickup significantly reduces the tone's dependency on the outside world. The pickup's tone changes less from install to install.

The second goal is output level. The preamp can account for low output by adding gain. This isn't as much of a given as people seem to think it is, there are plenty of examples of active preamps in pickups (or externally) with little or no gain.

The preamp in an active pickup isn't deliberately a tone shaping tool. There's no such thing as a perfect amp circuit, so there's always some tonal impact, and sometimes the design is tweaked to change that impact, but typically when you want to "do more" with the design of am active pickup in terms of tonality, you're making changes to the passive part of the pickup (magnets, coil wire, size/shape/etc) and not the preamp itself.

Think of it this way: the coil and magnet generate the tone. The preamp is just along for the ride, to make sure the outside world gets the tone that the pickup designer intended.