So, I'm not sure I get EMG.

[Steve J]

EMG active pickups, at least the ones I've used, and I've used several, are on the bright side. YouTube demos show them as being noticeably brighter than other pickups.

I think their architecture is great - low output passive pickup wind with an on-board buffer preamp. But for some reason they have left them to be bright, bright, bright.

I would think they could over several tone flavors (dark, medium, bright) just with variations to the preamp. But apparently they don't.

What am I missing?

I have An EMG active pickup in my 66 Precision, which I rebuilt in the early 80s. Sounds wonderful, is bright when I need bright, smooth when I need smooth. Still cookin’ after over 35 yrs. Wouldn’t change unless it craps out.....

 

[cataract]

What’s not to get?
Everything More Good!

 

[TonyP-]

To the OP
They have made some differences over the years.
Check out my buddy @DistortedBass and the video he did about the X series

 

[darwin-bass]

In an active pickup, the preamp essentially has two design goals.

First, buffer the signal. (snip)
The second goal is output level. (snip)

The preamp in an active pickup isn't deliberately a tone shaping tool. (snip)

Yep, I get all of that. But what if the embedded pre was more than just a buffer / gain stage?

Add some tone shaping. Have different flavors with different midrange dips or shifted resonant peaks. Add some user-selectable switches to the PU so you can choose your desired baked-in tone.

I suspect they looked at the old SD pickups with dip switches and realized it wouldn't sell. Perhaps there isn't room on the embedded board for more than a simple buffer / gain stage. Or maybe, like Fender, they have their lane and are just going to keep running in that lane.

 

[dwizum]

It boils down to design philosophy, in the sense of where or how you design for a specific goal. There's no real need to put that kind of feature on the pickup itself - people are used to tone shaping happening in a later stage (passive or active controls on the bass, pedals, amp, etc.). Designing something that takes a different approach could raise "compatibility" questions. Or it could limit the flexibility of what you deliver.

Tone shaping in the form of simple filters is pretty easy. It's a few cents in parts that take up a few square mm of space. The problem is, if you hard code that in the pickup, it can't be undone. Whereas if you leave the pickup "pure" in the sense that the tonal characteristics are only a result of the coil/magnet, you're still allowing for simple filters or active tone controls, but now you can sell them separately instead of building them into the pickup. This makes much more sense from a marketing and practicality sense.

 

[IBJammin]

Guitar Fetish does have active pickups with dip switches that do exactly that. Not extreme tone shaping, but db boost, and what I guess is essentially a low/high boost (resulting in a mid scoop).
REDactive EQ Switchable P Bass Active pickup black Case-RL1 is an example.
It's been done, just not mainstream.
(No affiliation.)

 

[BOOG]

Maybe try different (darker) strings?

 

[perfektspace6]

I would argue they are not overly bright but somewhat sterile and colorless when paired with an active EMG preamp. I little bit clinical but some people want that. I have EMGs on a couple of my basses, but do not have them paired with an EMG active preamp, and they do a great job of articulating the nature of each respective preamp. They are quiet from a noise standpoint and record very well.

 

[JimmyM]

One way they aren't perfect is the odd choice of endorser name. They're actually based on Bobby Vega's pickups, not Butler's, but Butler "liked them so much he agreed to lend his name to them."

I've no idea at all what the agreement behind the scenes might be between EMG and Vega, but if Butler is getting paid on those sales and Vega isn't, that kind of stinks.

The pickups do sound good though.

First, if Geezer’s tech never approached my friend Chrys, who used to do AR at EMG, they wouldn’t have happened, with or without Bobby. Second, Bobby was an employee of EMG at the time. I am not privy to the financial deets, and it’s really nobody’s business anyway. But without Geezer, they wouldn’t have this pickup.

 

[Altitude]

First, if Geezer’s tech never approached my friend Chrys, who used to do AR at EMG, they wouldn’t have happened, with or without Bobby. Second, Bobby was an employee of EMG at the time. I am not privy to the financial deets, and it’s really nobody’s business anyway. But without Geezer, they wouldn’t have this pickup.

Does Geezer have his name on a pickup based on someone else’s tone, or no?

 

[KJMO]

Does Geezer have his name on a pickup based on someone else’s tone, or no?

I thought Geezer no longer had his actual P-bass, and he thought Vega's was very similar? I don't see the point of finding some sort of logical inconsistency or error. It's just how it happened, for good reasons.

 

[JimmyM]

Does Geezer have his name on a pickup based on someone else’s tone, or no?

So Bobby Vega invented the sound of pre-CBS Precisions? Get real.

 

[KJMO]

So the verdict is that EMG never made a pickup that didn't sound like their first ones somebody didn't like, and when they actually did make pickups that didn't sound the same, those aren't really EMG pickups, even though they are EMGs. And tone is in the fingers, but it's actually Bobby Vega's fingers that are in the Geezers, rather than Geezer's fingers, so they suck. Only on Talkbass!

 

[ctmullins]

Add some tone shaping. Have different flavors with different midrange dips or shifted resonant peaks. Add some user-selectable switches to the PU so you can choose your desired baked-in tone.

Fishman is doing this with their Fluence - Fishman. I find them intriguing.

 

[Altitude]

So Bobby Vega invented the sound of pre-CBS Precisions? Get real.

I suppose they could have used anyone's bass as the model, but they used Bobby's.

Not worth arguing over though.

 

[JimmyM]

So the verdict is that EMG never made a pickup that didn't sound like their first ones somebody didn't like, and when they actually did make pickups that didn't sound the same, those aren't really EMG pickups, even though they are EMGs. And tone is in the fingers, but it's actually Bobby Vega's fingers that are in the Geezers, rather than Geezer's fingers, so they suck. Only on Talkbass!

Honestly!

 

[JimmyM]

I suppose they could have used anyone's bass as the model, but they used Bobby's.

Not worth arguing over though.

No it’s not. Bobby was quite happy about them when I spoke to him a couple years ago, with nary a trace of bitterness. So if he’s happy with how it went down, end of story.

 

[darwin-bass]

It boils down to design philosophy, in the sense of where or how you design for a specific goal. There's no real need to put that kind of feature on the pickup itself - people are used to tone shaping happening in a later stage (passive or active controls on the bass, pedals, amp, etc.). Designing something that takes a different approach could raise "compatibility" questions. Or it could limit the flexibility of what you deliver.

Tone shaping in the form of simple filters is pretty easy. It's a few cents in parts that take up a few square mm of space. The problem is, if you hard code that in the pickup, it can't be undone. Whereas if you leave the pickup "pure" in the sense that the tonal characteristics are only a result of the coil/magnet, you're still allowing for simple filters or active tone controls, but now you can sell them separately instead of building them into the pickup. This makes much more sense from a marketing and practicality sense.

And this, is what I suspect the answer is. EMG is a smart company. I'm sure someone thought of my idea before I did but rejected it for sound business reasons.

 

[Lo-E]

I suspect they looked at the old SD pickups with dip switches and realized it wouldn't sell.

I got a set of these in a used Kramer fretless P/J that I bought sometime around 1989. Set flat, they sounded pretty similar to the original EMGs to my ear. The dip switches enabled me to dial in a sound I liked with each pickup and I never touched them again.

I used that bass for several years and never had a problem with the electronics but I always questioned the wisdom of having those exposed switches right on the front of the pickups. It’s a good thing I don’t sweat a lot!

I believe SD made those p’ups until the mid-90s and then replaced them with similar p’ups that have the switches on the back. At the time I used these pickups there really weren’t a lot of onboard preamps on the market yet. Nowadays I don’t see a big advantage to having tone control right on the pickups.

 

[factory presets]

And tone is in the fingers, but it's actually Bobby Vega's fingers that are in the Geezers, rather than Geezer's fingers, so they suck. Only on Talkbass!

That's ridiculous. Everyone knows it's his pick that's in them. That's why they're called pickups in the first place.

This thread has been helpful. I've got a PJ set of old EMGs that I've been steadily going off since I put flats over them. Cheap tone pot can't tame the bright. Thread given me a few ideas about what steps to take next. Thanks guys.