so this happened last night

[Lizardskyball]

That's the full definition.Inherent is not inherited.Two different words.And my comment wasn't a "dumb remark"It's a fact.Most women don't like Jazz I.E. Allan Holdsworth.Or Progressive instrumental such as Dream Theater or Tosin Abasi's music.Practically ALL of the music acts I've been to were almost all guys.And if there are women in attendance they are likely an unwilling girlfriend or wife.Do you know otherwise?

What I do know is that you are supposed to put a space after punctuation marks. Yes, inherted and inherent are different. I was messing with you because you're making generilzed statements because you saw a bunch of dudes at some shows.

 

[1958Bassman]

At the risk of sucking all the hilarity out of this thread by trying to turn everything into a scientific research question, this is another music-related phenomenon that is fascinating to me because it seems utterly bizarre if you stop to think about it for a moment. Why in the world would somebody -- no matter how drunk -- be so desperate to hear a particular song at a particular time that they would pay $140 to hear it at that moment? Again, I challenge you to name another domain of life or work in which this happens....

You included "no matter how drunk" and still had to post the question?

As for your last question, the answer is Strippers. Strippers have people hurling money at them in hopes that said stripper will do the things they seem to be insinuating.

And no, "I can't go, I think she really likes me!" doesn't make it happen.

 

[1958Bassman]

I know plenty of women that like jazz, and that's a fact.

I think it depends on location- some places seem to be better for some genres.

Here's one I went to school with from 7th grade through High School. Apparently, she likes Jazz-

 

[raventepes]

Distorted Drop Tuned Banjos...

I think you might actually have something there! A friend of mine plays Enter Sandman on the banjo and it sounds really cool

I've actually played an electric banjo through a couple distortion pedals, both OD and fuzz. It's rather interesting, and I could see its potential in a metal band.

 

[Watchootognbout]

What I do know is that you are supposed to put a space after punctuation marks. Yes, inherted and inherent are different. I was messing with you because you're making generilzed statements because you saw a bunch of dudes at some shows.

I can make punctuation and spelling corrections too!I know that the word is inherited,not "inherted"And generalized is not "generilzed"So now we both have made silly punctuation and spelling corrections.And finally,my generalized statement is STILL generally true.So.....

 

[Robroy]

I knew the guys in a 'Blues Bros' style band and when they were playing one gig, a woman went up to the singer and asked if they played requests. He told her they didn't, but asked what she wanted to hear and asked her to write the songs on a napkin- it had 'Rollin' Down The River', 'Left A Good Job In The City' and 'Proud Mary'.

I know two of those.

 

[Robroy]

and dude it doesn't count if the women liking jazz are IN THE BAND! I don't know a single woman who really likes jazz.

I know plenty that like "easy listening jazz", just not "real" jazz.

 

[Gaolee]

I know quite a few women who like jazz of all kinds. I guess we don't know the same people.

 

[Lobster11]

You included "no matter how drunk" and still had to post the question?

As for your last question, the answer is Strippers. Strippers have people hurling money at them in hopes that said stripper will do the things they seem to be insinuating.

And no, "I can't go, I think she really likes me!" doesn't make it happen.

First, I certainly understand that drunkenness impairs judgment and makes people less discriminating in how they might throw around their money. But that's not the mystery. If you are right that people's perceptions of strippers are analogous to their perceptions of musicians or bands, it only underscores the thing I find bizarre about people's perceptions of musicians. Hear me out here....

With a stripper, it is obvious that she has "what you want." Her performance is designed to demonstrate that she has a beautiful body that you want to see (or perhaps something more, but let's keep it family-friendly here.) As the client, you perceive her almost-taking-off-her-clothes as a tease: She obviously COULD take off all her clothes at any minute to give you what you want, and the only thing stopping her is waiting for you to dole out the cash to make it worth her while.

Now if this is what is going on with the person who expects (and is willing to pay for) the band to play "Free Bird," something is very weird about this. It suggests that although the band has been playing jazz standards all night, the person perceives this as merely a "tease" that demonstrates that if they wanted to, they could play what he/she really wants to hear (say, "Free Bird") -- and that the only thing standing in the way is adequate motivation (e.g., a $140 tip).

Actually, I think this might actually be right. But if it is, it underscores the idea that people have perceptions/beliefs about musicians that are really bizarre: i.e. that if they can play jazz standards, for example, then they surely are able to play any song that one might name at the drop of a hat -- and they are withholding "Free Bird" only because no one has tipped them enough yet. And that's my point. Do people really believe that if you are a musician/band, you not only know, but could play on request, any song in the universe? And again I repeat the challenge: In what other profession or domain of life that is perceived this way?

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

First, I certainly understand that drunkenness impairs judgment and makes people less discriminating in how they might throw around their money. But that's not the mystery. If you are right that people's perceptions of strippers are analogous to their perceptions of musicians or bands, it only underscores the thing I find bizarre about people's perceptions of musicians. Hear me out here....

With a stripper, it is obvious that she has "what you want." Her performance is designed to demonstrate that she has a beautiful body that you want to see (or perhaps something more, but let's keep it family-friendly here.) As the client, you perceive her almost-taking-off-her-clothes as a tease: She obviously COULD take off all her clothes at any minute to give you what you want, and the only thing stopping her is waiting for you to dole out the cash to make it worth her while.

Now if this is what is going on with the person who expects (and is willing to pay for) the band to play "Free Bird," something is very weird about this. It suggests that although the band has been playing jazz standards all night, the person perceives this as merely a "tease" that demonstrates that if they wanted to, they could play what he/she really wants to hear (say, "Free Bird") -- and that the only thing standing in the way is adequate motivation (e.g., a $140 tip).

Actually, I think this might actually be right. But if it is, it underscores the idea that people have perceptions/beliefs about musicians that are really bizarre: i.e. that if they can play jazz standards, for example, then they surely are able to play any song that one might name at the drop of a hat -- and they are withholding "Free Bird" only because no one has tipped them enough yet. And that's my point. Do people really believe that if you are a musician/band, you not only know, but could play on request, any song in the universe? And again I repeat the challenge: In what other profession or domain of life that is perceived this way?

My band got an extra $300 to play an hour longer last friday, I think their money would have gone a lot further with a stripper.

I think almost all professions are like that. Ask someone that works in IT the kind of crap they have to put up with on a daily basis from naive clientele. I used to build custom doors and windows and have to explain to almost every homeowner (not contractors or architects) that I can't do what they want because of wood/glass/engineering constraints. Now I maintain wind turbines and have to explain to every layman I meet that "they only turn when the wind is blowing" and "no it can't generate power unless the wind is over 10 mph." Invariably people want to then invent a wind turbine that generates power when the wind is less than 10mph...

 

[Lobster11]

My band got an extra $300 to play an hour longer last friday, I think their money would have gone a lot further with a stripper.

I think almost all professions are like that. Ask someone that works in IT the kind of crap they have to put up with on a daily basis from naive clientele. I used to build custom doors and windows and have to explain to almost every homeowner (not contractors or architects) that I can't do what they want because of wood/glass/engineering constraints. Now I maintain wind turbines and have to explain to every layman I meet that "they only turn when the wind is blowing" and "no it can't generate power unless the wind is over 10 mph." Invariably people want to then invent a wind turbine that generates power when the wind is less than 10mph...

Right, I certainly get your point that if people are not knowledgeable about your area of expertise, they might well ask you to do something that in fact is impossible to do. But once you've explained that what your client wants defies the law of physics -- e.g., that a turbine cannot generate power in the absence of wind -- do they then offer you more money to make it so? And if you then politely explain that more money won't change the laws of physics, do they become belligerent and angry, as if it is perfectly obvious that you COULD build such a thing if only you were willing (so you're obviously being a dick if you refuse)? That's the part of the "Free Bird" request that blows my mind: It's not just that some people believe that if you can play jazz you must therefore know "Free Bird," but that they are so certain about this they are utterly convinced that a bigger tip is the answer and that any further refusal on your part is because you're just uncooperative.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

Right, I certainly get your point that if people are not knowledgeable about your area of expertise, they might well ask you to do something that in fact is impossible to do. But once you've explained that what your client wants defies the law of physics -- e.g., that a turbine cannot generate power in the absence of wind -- do they then offer you more money to make it so? And if you then politely explain that more money won't change the laws of physics, do they become belligerent and angry, as if it is perfectly obvious that you COULD build such a thing if only you were willing (so you're obviously being a dick if you refuse)? That's the part of the "Free Bird" request that blows my mind: It's not just that some people believe that if you can play jazz you must therefore know "Free Bird," but that they are so certain about this they are utterly convinced that a bigger tip is the answer and that any further refusal on your part is because you're just uncooperative.

You are right, they don't offer me a bigger tip to get what they want. However, they still don't believe me and distrust what I say to the point that they will spend their $140 (or more) on a wind turbine that is sold by a shyster on the internet claiming that it produces power in very low wind speeds. Or in my previous profession on a different manufacturer that promises them anything to get their business.

The difference between music and other professions is that when we deliver the shoddy goods for $140, they are oblivious to the fact that our rendition of "free bird" was a complete trainwreck with very little in common with the original besides the mumbling of "free as a bird" somewhere in there.

I just thought of a profession that meets your criteria: cable guy. Everybody thinks they can tip the cable guy and get free HBO.

 

[Feral Feline]

My band got an extra $300 to play an hour longer last friday, I think their money would have gone a lot further with a stripper...

Yeah, I'd strip for $300, but I'd probably be too drunk at that point to play properly.

 

[Feral Feline]

I'll bet you know a whole lot more that don't!

Yes, and that's a fact. In fact, none of the women I know that like jazz are into the "Smooth" stuff, but other sub-genres of jazz are well represented. As well, most of the women I know that like jazz, are not musicians and therefore do not play jazz apart from on their iPod/music-player device. Lastly, some of these women are in disparate locations around the globe (you meet a lot of people in Hong Kong who then move on to somewhere else), so I can't say it's a location-dependent thing. More likely just the company I keep, and like to keep.


I look forward to the day somebody makes an unreasonable request and keeps throwing money at my band...

 

[pklima]

That's the part of the "Free Bird" request that blows my mind: It's not just that some people believe that if you can play jazz you must therefore know "Free Bird," but that they are so certain about this they are utterly convinced that a bigger tip is the answer and that any further refusal on your part is because you're just uncooperative.

Blame two things - one is DJs who can fulfill requests, even for tracks we don't have. Being able to quickly download things using the club's wi-fi raises peoples' expectations for requests, and some of that expectation then trickles down to bands. But the main guilty parties is everyone - musicians, journalists, fans - who turned jazz into a respectable, serious art form. That makes quite a few people think that if you can play some complicated solo of course you should be able to do something simple like "Freebird", you're probably just being a stuck up snob who thinks rock songs are beneath his dignity.

I'm not really into classic rock. For all I know "Freebird" is about a witch who got a chicken for free and wanted to turn it into something with more meat on it, like a cow, but this bird she could not change.

 

[jive1]

So I read through this thread and enjoyed all the hilarious stories. Seen the same many times in many contexts, and despite my limited gigging experience have even had it happen to me. And the more I think about it, the more peculiar the whole phenomenon seems to me. Think about it: There is this perception among some/many people that if you know how to play some songs on an instrument, you must know every song ever written and be able to play it at any moment. But not just that: They are often so sure that this is true that if you tell them you don't know the song (or how to play it), they don't believe you. They even get angry and belligerent about your "refusal" to play it: They are so certain that you could play it if you wanted to that they assume you are just being a jerk by refusing to give it up. Or, they think that if they just offered you more money you would suddenly be able to play it, again as if the problem were lack of motivation rather than simply not knowing how.

If you're not persuaded that there is something really weird about this, try to think of another domain of life or work in which this happens to the same degree. I can't think of a single example that is even remotely similar.

Sorry if this is too "serious" for a thread intended to be amusing, but I'm really intrigued by this and would be interested to hear what others think. What the H is going on here? [Disclaimer: I happen to be a college professor and psychological researcher in my day job, so this is the kind of stuff I think about for a living!]

The closest domain of life that I can think of where similar things happen is being a parent.

But there are many reasons why someone will request a song and expect the band to be able to play it. As you know as a pyschologist, random reinforcement can be one of the strongest reinforcers. The patron may have run across one or more bands that was able to play the request in the past, thus conditioning them into thinking other bands can as well. Those bands could have ranged from willing to reluctant, thus the 'motivators' the patron provides along with the request. The band may have been able to do the request of another patron, and they may expect the ability to do the same. For me, I take these requests as a compliment in that they think I am talented enough to pull it off. IME, people usually don't ask terrible bands to do requests because they suck at it.

At the risk of sucking all the hilarity out of this thread by trying to turn everything into a scientific research question, this is another music-related phenomenon that is fascinating to me because it seems utterly bizarre if you stop to think about it for a moment. Why in the world would somebody -- no matter how drunk -- be so desperate to hear a particular song at a particular time that they would pay $140 to hear it at that moment? Again, I challenge you to name another domain of life or work in which this happens....

There's plenty of realms where someone will throw their money around to get their way. Ask a bartender who has had a patron who's been kicked out of a couple of bars and cut off whether or not they've ever had someone offer a wad of cash for another drink. Ask a repairman who has a day booked solid if they've every been offered more money for someone to take their case first. This is something common in any service occupation, and many retail operations. It may not be a song, but people do want to get their way, and money is just one of many means.

Some people are control freaks or attention whores who need to assert themselves into any situation. They are not good at passively enjoying something, so they have to insert their control or presence somewhere and that's usually done via requests or more obnoxious behavior like jumping on stage and grabbing a mic. Some are so control and/or attention oriented that they are willing pay loads of money and pride to assert themselves.

 

[mellowinman]

For all I know "Freebird" is about a witch who got a chicken for free and wanted to turn it into something with more meat on it, like a cow, but this bird she could not change.

That is EXACTLY how I have always interpreted the song.

 

[xUptheIronsx]

I was playing with a jazz quintet - trumpet, tenor sax, keys, drums, and me, playing from the Real Books. Most of the crowd was into it.

Start of the second set, a drunk chick comes up to us and asks if we play any Springsteen. When we told her it was not on the list, she told us if we learned some, we would be a really good band.

ugh...I would rather deal with skins in the mosh pit than this kind of stuff...

 

[RandalPinkFloyd]

Even when Springsteen plays Springsteen, it's not a good band!

Sorry, not a fan and always look for a opportunity to bash the "boss".

All in good fun, I respect those who go crazy for him, although, I just don't get it. ...and I'm from Joisey!

In the same boat with you man. Had a roommate in the Army that loved the boss. We got into some heated arguments. He couldn't fathom why I didn't like Bruce. I couldn't fathom how he could stand to listen to more than 15 seconds of Bruce.

 

[Lobster11]

The closest domain of life that I can think of where similar things happen is being a parent.

This is a really interesting analogy. From a child's perspective (which is what I assume you mean here), if you are Mommy or Daddy then it is understood/assumed that you can do anything. If you explain that what you've been asked to do is physically impossible, the child might well keep upping the ante ("please please please please please"), and/or get angry with you for "refusing" to do it -- in both cases because he or she assumes that of course you could do that thing if you wanted to, and so it's only a question of motivating you properly. So if in fact this is a good analogy for the way people perceive musicians, well, doesn't that underscore my point that there is really something really weird about the way people perceive musicians?!