So, we all suck...

[john_g]

The biggest mistake bands I've been in make is they tend to confuse rehearsal with practice.
Practice is what I do at home
Rehearsal is what the band does once per week.
That's not to say if I or a band member is struggling with a piece of a song we help each other.
But IMVHO each member should know this week's tunes before rehearsal.
God luck keep us informed as to your progress
Duke

This. I have had multiple cover bands break up over this fact. The only questions a bandmate should have coming in to rehearsal are "how to we start this song" and "how do we end it" (assuming you are not changing the arrangement or adding anything) Yes, there have been lots of times people get busy and might not have the song completely down, but the goal should be to have the songs 99.9% down before rehearsal. You will be there for a couple of years trying to have multiple people learning 40+ songs AT rehearsal.

 

[Michael B]

Yeah, my originals band years ago, also took it way too slow. We didn't play out nearly as much as we should have.

 

[40Hz]

Your post reminded me of something else that I wanted to ask, that might be a bit of a controversial topic here:

Using Rocksmith 2014 (PC version for the cDLC) to help learn new tunes.

In my limited experience I have found Rocksmith to be invaluable. I can look up tabs for songs, but there just seems to be something more with Rocksmith - the ability to play my part with 'a band'. I've seen several posts on these forums where people say negative things about Rocksmith, but honestly I have found it to be a very useful tool thus far - especially with songs that I am not familiar with.

I am curious as to what people think about this.

I think some of the negativity is the result of people who are concerned that while Rocksmith may teach you songs it's not really teaching you to play music.

In the old days, pianists and virtually every other instrument had a standard "studies method" to teach you music and how to play your instrument (two different things) and then apply it to playing actual songs. That frustrated a lot of would-be musicians because it could literally take years before you ever played your first piece of real music. That was far too much "preparation" for most people. And rightly so.

Guitar and electric bass, on the other hand, were mostly taught using the "song a week" approach which allowed you to wow your friends, but left you to actually learn about the underpinnings of music by osmosis. That was highly inefficient and got guitarists and electric bass players a reputation for being uneducated morons wherever "real" musicians gathered.

Today, music instruction is lightyears beyond the way it used to be taught. Students are given real songs to play as early as possible while still being given a solid background in basic theory and music analysis so they know what they're playing and why it works. And things like the CAGED system have served as the Rosetta Stone that finally unlocked the mysteries of the guitar and bass fretboards so that it's now clear and obvious how they work to anybody who takes the time to study and digest it.

When it comes to things like Rocksmith, I think some people are worried it could easily turn into a return to the bad old days of "learning" by learning songs. Those who suffered in their early years from being taught that way (i.e. us "old guys") tend to be negative towards anything that resembles that. Not to say that's how Rocksmith works. But it looks so much like those play along "band" video games that it becomes guilt by association.

But I'm of the school that says: "use whatever works for you." If Rocksmith works for you, then by all means use it.

 

[T-MOST]

Sounds like a sound plan. just make sure everyone does their homework before rehearsal to maximize productivity. Play on and have fun!

 

[KickingBass]

So, you did say that you all suck.... Please don't make an audience awkwardly sit through your suckiness. I'm pretty sure you've been in the audience seeing another band just sound terrible and it's no fun. So make sure you all definitely iron out all the suck and refine your playing until is golden, THEN go play in front of people. I know there's value in just getting out there and doing it but being as ready as possible is a good thing. My band practiced for years before really committing to playing live often and none of us regret it. Not saying that's what you should do just giving an example from my own experience.

 

[RedHatter]

I think some of the negativity is the result of people who are concerned that while Rocksmith may teach you songs it's not really teaching you to play music.

In the old days, pianists and virtually every other instrument had a standard "studies method" to teach you music and how to play your instrument (two different things) and then apply it to playing actual songs. That frustrated a lot of would-be musicians because it could literally take years before you ever played your first piece of real music. That was far too much "preparation" for most people. And rightly so.

Guitar and electric bass, on the other hand, were mostly taught using the "song a week" approach which allowed you to wow your friends, but left you to actually learn about the underpinnings of music by osmosis. That was highly inefficient and got guitarists and electric bass players a reputation for being uneducated morons wherever "real" musicians gathered.

Today, music instruction is lightyears beyond the way it used to be taught. Students are given real songs to play as early as possible while still being given a solid background in basic theory and music analysis so they know what they're playing and why it works. And things like the CAGED system have served as the Rosetta Stone that finally unlocked the mysteries of the guitar and bass fretboards so that it's now clear and obvious how they work to anybody who takes the time to study and digest it.

When it comes to things like Rocksmith, I think some people are worried it could easily turn into a return to the bad old days of "learning" by learning songs. Those who suffered in their early years from being taught that way (i.e. us "old guys") tend to be negative towards anything that resembles that. Not to say that's how Rocksmith works. But it looks so much like those play along "band" video games that it becomes guilt by association.

But I'm of the school that says: "use whatever works for you." If Rocksmith works for you, then by all means use it.

This makes a lot of sense. I use Rocksmith as a tool, really. As I said in my original post about it, it helps me to be able to hear the entire song as it's being played. For theory and whatnot, I pay an instructor for weekly lessons. What you've said makes it very clear.

 

[StraffordMike]

Not to be discouraging - but if nobody can really sing you are probably doomed to failure. It's the most important thing!

I have to agree. I've been playing in a band for over a year. The first drummer never learned tunes, would get pissed off if I suggested we fix mistakes( I was being too picky) and the singer is just plain awful but the music scene around here is full of snobs and Gods gifts to music so getting into a new band has been impossible. Not to mention everyone is doing acoustic stuff.

 

[RedHatter]

So, you did say that you all suck.... Please don't make an audience awkwardly sit through your suckiness. I'm pretty sure you've been in the audience seeing another band just sound terrible and it's no fun. So make sure you all definitely iron out all the suck and refine your playing until is golden, THEN go play in front of people. I know there's value in just getting out there and doing it but being as ready as possible is a good thing. My band practiced for years before really committing to playing live often and none of us regret it. Not saying that's what you should do just giving an example from my own experience.

Oh, in my 41 years I've been to a lot of shows. Some were very good, while others were terrible. I can definitely feel what you're saying. Oh and about the 'sucking' part, yeah we do suck at the moment, but I put that really as just light humor - I mean, of course we suck, we just started playing together haha!

 

[InhumanResource]

Keep playing together, and listen together during rehearsal. Some of the best practices I've had were the group of us listening together to pick parts up.

The other thing is, if you get the opportunity and time to spend...jam with people who are more experienced than your band! Don't get me wrong, your rehearsal time with your regular band is invaluable but music is a team sport. Playing with people who have put in more years on stage will help show you some things that you may not have experienced yet, and you can take those new skills back to your regular group.

 

[Charlzm]

Be all on the same page on that plan.

Add: Take your first three songs to an open mic after week 3. Rinse and repeat. Anyone can learn 3 songs a week if they are truly interested in doing their own gigs.

Allowing for a few misfires on song selection you should be able to gig well before summer is out. So see how it is going at week 3 and book that gig after second open mic at week 4.

What are these "open mics" that people often refer to? AFAIK, they don't exist here in Los Angeles and I never encountered one growing up in Florida, either.
Well, I have heard of open mics for singers or duos, of course, but never for a full band.
Is this really a thing, where a full band can play just a song or two?

 

[KickingBass]

What are these "open mics" that people often refer to? AFAIK, they don't exist here in Los Angeles and I never encountered one growing up in Florida, either.
Well, I have heard of open mics for singers or duos, of course, but never for a full band.
Is this really a thing, where a full band can play just a song or two?

Urban legends as far as I know... That is a good question btw.

 

[whatizitman]

Sometimes "noobs" are a good and healthy thing for a project.

I just got an email from our soon-to-be keyboardist, with an attachment of all the songs she's been working on with keys and chord numbers. She's worried that since she's never played in a band setting before she won't be able to "jam" along with us without having sheet music in front of her, so she's working on getting more comfortable playing by chords.

Nobody asked her write out the charts. She did it on her own, at home. I know her personally enough to know she's very detail oriented, big on preparation, etc... And I've seen her play. She's nervous but very excited in a "green" kinda way. She'll do just fine.

Even if it doesn't go great, I'm more happy to play with someone with a great attitude, wants to learn and get better, etc... than a seasoned musician with a flaky or bad attitude. No way.

She's also recommending a female singer we know come and try a song or too, and I'm more than happy with that. Our regular male singer has not been preparing as much as the rest of us.... So it goes. I'm all for more voices - spreads the fronting responsibility and mixes things up in a healthy way.

Not bad for a bunch of 9to5er weekend warriors.

 

[RedHatter]

What are these "open mics" that people often refer to? AFAIK, they don't exist here in Los Angeles and I never encountered one growing up in Florida, either.
Well, I have heard of open mics for singers or duos, of course, but never for a full band.
Is this really a thing, where a full band can play just a song or two?

I'm with this guy. In my area there isn't such a thing, even in the bigger cities. Sure, open mics exist, but they're primarily for singers, not full bands.

 

[RedHatter]

Sometimes "noobs" are a good and healthy thing for a project.

I just got an email from our soon-to-be keyboardist, with an attachment of all the songs she's been working on with keys and chord numbers. She's worried that since she's never played in a band setting before she won't be able to "jam" along with us without having sheet music in front of her, so she's working on getting more comfortable playing by chords.

Nobody asked her write out the charts. She did it on her own, at home. I know her personally enough to know she's very detail oriented, big on preparation, etc... And I've seen her play. She's nervous but very excited in a "green" kinda way. She'll do just fine.

Even if it doesn't go great, I'm more happy to play with someone with a great attitude, wants to learn and get better, etc... than a seasoned musician with a flaky or bad attitude. No way.

She's also recommending a female singer we know come and try a song or too, and I'm more than happy with that. Our regular male singer has not been preparing as much as the rest of us.... So it goes. I'm all for more voices - spreads the fronting responsibility and mixes things up in a healthy way.

Not bad for a bunch of 9to5er weekend warriors.

This is kinda' how we're approaching things as well. While I would like to produce a sound that is as close to a studio recording as possible, I realize that it probably isn't going to happen. Even more, I am okay with that as long as it's a close match. While this could very well change down the road, for now I'd be happy to begin playing a song and the audience (or at least though who would actually know the song) go... "Oh hey, that's Psycho Killer by Talking Heads!". At this stage in the game, this is all I am asking for.

 

[SirMjac28]

not many singing bassists! There is a thread of songs that have easier to bass along parts if you are less than a prodigy.

+1 I think one of the most difficult things in music is to be a lead singer that plays bass and it may be the reason you don't see many if you're singing lead check out bands that feature a bass playing lead singer or bands that dont have complex bass lines because it isn't easy keeping locked in with the drummer, remembering lyrics, adjustting to different tempos in a song all while trying to have a stage presence. I wish you luck there has been some excellent advice in this thread for you to follow.
,

 

[RedHatter]

+1 I think one of the most difficult things in music is to be a lead singer that plays bass and it may be the reason you don't see many if you're singing lead check out bands that feature a bass playing lead singer or bands that dont have complex bass lines because it isn't easy keeping locked in with the drummer, remembering lyrics, adjustting to different tempos in a song all while trying to have a stage presence. I wish you luck there has been some excellent advice in this thread for you to follow.
,

I read on here some time ago that starting bassists/singers will often times keep their eyes locked on their fret hand while singing - that this helps to keep time. So far when I've tried it hasn't been easy, but as I do it more I am finding that it isn't as difficult as it once was.

 

[whatizitman]

This is kinda' how we're approaching things as well. While I would like to produce a sound that is as close to a studio recording as possible, I realize that it probably isn't going to happen. Even more, I am okay with that as long as it's a close match. While this could very well change down the road, for now I'd be happy to begin playing a song and the audience (or at least though who would actually know the song) go... "Oh hey, that's Psycho Killer by Talking Heads!". At this stage in the game, this is all I am asking for.

My experience is that the only folks who care how close a cover gets to the original are other musicians. Most people just need to recognize a song they like, and they are good to go.

I've mostly done originals in previous bands. I've been focusing mainly on covers the last little while, and I'm surprised how much fun it has been. I just get to play and sing, have fun, enjoy the challenge of learning good (as in tried and trusted) songs, and maybe entertain someone along the way. As awesome as writing/arranging/producing new music can be, it comes with the stress of knowing you are spending a lot of time and effort on something that few people will ever care about or enjoy. But take a few minutes to learn and play a simple song everyone knows, and suddenly you're the life of the party. Funny that.

 

[RedHatter]

My experience is that the only folks who care how close a cover gets to the original are other musicians. Most people just need to recognize a song they like, and they are good to go.

I've mostly done originals in previous bands. I've been focusing mainly on covers the last little while, and I'm surprised how much fun it has been. I just get to play and sing, have fun, enjoy the challenge of learning good (as in tried and trusted) songs, and maybe entertain someone along the way. As awesome as writing/arranging/producing new music can be, it comes with the stress of knowing you are spending a lot of time and effort on something that few people will ever care about or enjoy. But take a few minutes to learn and play a simple song everyone knows, and suddenly you're the life of the party. Funny that.

What you've described is exactly where we are currently. We're not so much interested in making money, it's just more about going out and having a good time. If the people we're playing for are enjoying it, then we're happy.

 

[whatizitman]

I read on here some time ago that starting bassists/singers will often times keep their eyes locked on their fret hand while singing - that this helps to keep time. So far when I've tried it hasn't been easy, but as I do it more I am finding that it isn't as difficult as it once was.

I think that just helps make sure you are hitting the right notes. The problem is that your eye contact is away from the audience, and your head is turned away from the mic. It's one thing to be able to play bass and sing at the same time. But it's quite another thing to front a band in a live setting. But it just takes practice, practice, practice. No one is born knowing how to do it.

If you need to keep time, try stamping your foot, step up and down/move to the groove, etc... You can't rely on timing visually. Singing and playing are like rubbing your tummy and tapping your head. You just have to keep doing it until you get in the groove.

 

[Michael B]

Playing and singing for me flip flops between one on auto and one in focus. It's a weird feeling that flips in a song. I hope it would be auto for both at some point. Not for me yet.