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So what does a $25k bass actually get you?

#621
Pops OB said:
Technology is a good thing, and plekking is aimed at producing consistent (across multiple instruments) and excellent results.

Unfortunately, from friends’ experiences, I’m hearing results that are less than excellent.

It’s like driverless cars. The technology is there, but it has a long, long way to go before I’ll trust it.
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I had great experience, so.....
 
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#622
Copperhead said:
You are quite correct but neither did I say otherwise. I just said what I would spend part of my $25000 on . :thumbsup:
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And I'm saying with the right luthier you might not need to spend the extra money.

The comment was more for general consumption than specific to you. Many think Plek is the best option. It's not necessarily so. That's all.

Kevin Brubaker had a player insist that his bass be plek'd because he thought it had playability issues. This person had issues with most of his basses. So it was sent to a shop, checked out and Kevin was told it needed nothing.
:hmm:
 
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#623
Pops OB said:
Technology is a good thing, and plekking is aimed at producing consistent (across multiple instruments) and excellent results.

Unfortunately, from friends’ experiences, I’m hearing results that are less than excellent.

It’s like driverless cars. The technology is there, but it has a long, long way to go before I’ll trust it.
Click to expand...

Same here. I related the story of a pro friend of mine who was gushing about his just Plek'd bass. I played it and then asked if he'd like to check out my custom Brubaker JXB6 jazz that I had in the car.

It completely blew him away. Not only was the fretwork flawless, the setup allowed for almost effortless play. He asked if Kevin could do the same for his bass.
:D
 
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#624
Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati said:
But having it on top of the top end luthier job may not ruin their work or be regarded as blasphemy :)
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If done right initially, it can be unnecessary. I don't own a single plek'd bass and I'd put them up against anything for playability. And the feedback I've had from hundreds who've played my instruments concurs.
 
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#626
Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati said:
Bah ... money is yours after all although I wasn’t criticising your choices (I’m not supposed to) ... what I was and I am doing is to openly challenge your way of reasoning, according to which, someone owning multiple expensive basses would automatically be in a better condition than others to judge about the quality of a musical instrument ... my view on this is that knowing the top is certainly useful to get an informed opinion, although for this it’s not strictly necessary to own several expensive gear ... that said, it’s all a matter of tone in the end ... the nasal tone of Jaco playing predominantly the bridge pickup of a jazz bass with only a small amount of treble driven in is the epitome of a sound that has been copied by legions of players and builders ... however, even in the ‘60s, the cost of a new Fender jazz was not that of a boutique instrument nowadays, taking due account all economic factors ... the same can be said for the tone of Paul Jackson’s P bass in several tunes from the Headhunters ...

In terms of what we can expect from a purchase, whatever purchase, unless we’re buying a prototype, we know more or less what we can expect and it’s normal after all .. you know, I’m an Engineer and I tend to look at things from a manufacturing/production perspective and, trust me, I’ve got some knowledge in the field .. do you own Foderas? Do you believe, as I said for old Tobias before, that people deciding to spend 6 grands on one of them do not know what they are going to receive .. come on Brad !
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Make up your mind. If people know about me they should know about me.
:D

Some who has experience playing high end basses, owning a wide array, setting up for others, working or collaborating with high end luthiers may not have the experience of someone who has little to none of that. Is that really your point because I'm cool with speaking from my experience? Plenty of folks IRL will also vouch for it.

It's not just a matter of tone for me. I don't just listen to basses... I hold them. I play them. The entire package matters to me.

I know where conversations with you usually end up so I'll cut to the chase. I find it extremely odd that someone who has an engineering background (electrical engineering for me but I didnt degree in it) could actually contend that if you order a custom bass, be it Tobias, Fodera or whatever, you'll know what you're getting... that is simply preposterous. Otherwise no one would ever be disappointed with a custom build. I have no idea why you continue to do this but I'll stand by my experience and rationale any day. Weird.
 
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#627
My bass is better than me, F Bass BNF5. Have not played another bass that feels as good or has a sound any better. I really like playing it, it feels good and I feel good. As icing on the "cake" I get to write it off. Unless you just have a penchant for giving the government more money. Why not buy instruments that one likes? Cheaper to keep than a boat or girlfriend.
If it wasn't for daughter number 2's wedding, bad me letting wife set the pace on the 1st daughter's day, I would be buying another FBass AC5 fretless this year. Originally sold my 67 precision bass to pay for current ax. Sold my 69 Jazz bass because I just wasn't moved to play it anymore. Probably will sell my upright to part pay for the AC5 classic. Bottom line, it is the player's prerogative.
 
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#628
Brad Johnson said:
I think you get what I'm saying.

If there really were a cost/quality formula results should be predictable. But they aren't. And unfortunately because of poor results at a price range folks often condemn the price range vs. the specific product. And don't see why that might not make sense.
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I think I see what you mean:
I was referring more to the law of diminishing returns where getting more (assuming it comes out right) costs increasingly more and more for smaller increments of improvement
and
you were referring (and I agree) to the fact that there is no guarantee that you will spend a ton and get fantastic results.

Maybe it comes down to whether a person thinks that expensive instruments that suck are outliers and exceptions to a cost/quality formula
or
Whether you believe that cost and quality vary so much in relation to each other that there isn't a formula that comes close to describing the relationship between the two.

In the end I'm not sure it matters too much as long as the customer realizes that diminishing returns is real and there are ALOT of instruments out there where the price may be wildly unrelated to quality and performance.

Or put even more simply, know the market and try before you buy.
 
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#629
Brad Johnson said:
Same here. I related the story of a pro friend of mine who was gushing about his just Plek'd bass. I played it and then asked if he'd like to check out my custom Brubaker JXB6 jazz that I had in the car.

It completely blew him away. Not only was the fretwork flawless, the setup allowed for almost effortless play. He asked if Kevin could do the same for his bass.
:D
Click to expand...

I paid to have my 7 string Conklin Pleked and I can gush all over the place about it. Cost me $300 for the job. It was done by a local Luthier and was MORE than just running the machine. The job was also finished with filing fret sprout, smoothing and polishing. All gush-level stuff. But let me also say I had the SAME job done by hand to my Ken Smith by another local luthier. No Plek. Cost a bit over $100 and I must say the job was every bit as gushable as the Plek. It's the person not the technology. If you have a crappy Plek operator you can expect a less than optimum job. A man with a set of files can also make a mess or do a gushable job. Cost of these things is basically set by the market and their reputations. If you try to make rules like cheap = bad; Expensive = good, or Plek = bad, Luthier = good, you are bound to run into trouble sooner or later.

The problem with expensive basses is like the problem with heath insurance. Say doctor says you have a dire disease and a year to live. You can then ask him that if you spend more money can he have you living a year and a half, How about even more money could it be even longer? The problem is that there is no limit to the amount of money you can spend to extend your life just a few minutes more. Same with basses. You can pour as much money as you like into a bass making each thing about it just a little bit better than it was. So How much improvement is enough for you and worth the money for YOU.
 
#631
Eilif said:
I think I see what you mean:
I was referring more to the law of diminishing returns where getting more (assuming it comes out right) costs increasingly more and more for smaller increments of improvement
and
you were referring (and I agree) to the fact that there is no guarantee that you will spend a ton and get fantastic results.

Maybe it comes down to whether a person thinks that expensive instruments that suck are outliers and exceptions to a cost/quality formula
or
Whether you believe that cost and quality vary so much in relation to each other that there isn't a formula that comes close to describing the relationship between the two.

In the end I'm not sure it matters too much as long as the customer realizes that diminishing returns is real and there are ALOT of instruments out there where the price may be wildly unrelated to quality and performance.

Or put even more simply, know the market and try before you buy.
Click to expand...

I've played way more than my share of expensive basses and while most didn't "suck", most didn't blow me away either. My rule is that whatever I'm buying or using, I need it to blow me away. I don't want to waste time on okay stuff.
 
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#635
Brad Johnson said:
Make up your mind. If people know about me they should know about me.
:D

Some who has experience playing high end basses, owning a wide array, setting up for others, working or collaborating with high end luthiers may not have the experience of someone who has little to none of that. Is that really your point because I'm cool with speaking from my experience? Plenty of folks IRL will also vouch for it.

It's not just a matter of tone for me. I don't just listen to basses... I hold them. I play them. The entire package matters to me.

I know where conversations with you usually end up so I'll cut to the chase. I find it extremely odd that someone who has an engineering background (electrical engineering for me but I didnt degree in it) could actually contend that if you order a custom bass, be it Tobias, Fodera or whatever, you'll know what you're getting... that is simply preposterous. Otherwise no one would ever be disappointed with a custom build. I have no idea why you continue to do this but I'll stand by my experience and rationale any day. Weird.
Click to expand...
Ah .. well .. stand by your experience Brad, no issues
 
#638
Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati said:
Oh I believe that you are on TB not only for sharing your experiences although shareable experience is always welcomed
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Honestly that is the only reason I post any more and it's always been my primary reason. I catch a lot of crap here on a regular basis and more often than not it doesn't seem worth it. Then I'll talk to someone who says I've helped them and it's cool.
 
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