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So what is it about the Fender P...

A

AngryPig1

Oct 1, 2012
261
42
London UK
#1
As someone who doesn't own a P I've got a bunch of questions. As I've documented elsewhere on this forum I've had a little trouble getting the tone I want from my 4003 on some recent recordings. Now nearly everyone I speak to says 'use a P' and they seem to have a reputation for sitting in amix better than anything else, so:

What exactly is it about a P that makes it stand out in the mix? is it the placement of the pickup in the 'sweetspot'? This seems to me to be the only consistent factor across all different P's (and as we know there are many many different models).

alternatively is it only the higher end American mades that have this quality. Is a Mex P or a Squier P or a Lakland going to stand out in the same way. These are undoubtably made of different components with different pickups etc not to mention the multitude of strings people use. When I asked in a shop I go to regularly the salesmen told me not to blow loads on an expensive Am as a cheap MiM or Squier would do the studio job just fine.

I see guys on here swapping out the pickups on their P's does this not lose some of that P magic?

Forgive me if I am asking some ignorant and basic questions, I'm just trying to crack some of this P-Bass Mystique.
 
#2
I think the pickup type and placement give you the tone. Single coil or split coil right smack in the middle, or "sweet spot." As you said, most everybody makes a P style bass that sounds like, well, a P bass. As far as the "magic" itself is concerned, I think the secret sauce is the mid frequencies produced, and where those frequencies sit sonically in a mix. But, that's just one opinion amongst many. YMMV.
 
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#4
That's so hard for me to put a "finger", as it were, on...

A well-set up (which isn't too hard to do) Precision has a balance of tone, not to boomy, not too bright, a combination of warmth, and a nice bite, or character, when used with round wound strings. I don't know how scientific Leo Fender's approach was when he designed the Precision, but whether intentional and by design, or accidental and a stroke of luck, he hit a combination of pickups and placement that has a will for ever be, for better or worse, a standard by which all other basses are measured.

I'll admit, I traded out the pups in mine (Precision 5 AM STD) for the Nordstrand NP5Fs, I think that's the model, and a Bartolini AGP-918-2 preamp. I wanted to run the gain hotter to match my Stingray, which actually turned out to be not much hotter at all. Still, the combination of the Nords and the Bart pre, gives it a little definition, at least to my ears.

I also keep (and hardly ever play) a 100% stock AM STD 4-string Precision for rental purposes. Touring bassists that ask for a Precision want to know what they are getting, hence the stock condition. I keep new strings on it and keep it set up.

Regardless of how many basses and the varied models I'll eventually have, my P5 will stay ready to go. My Stingray is my go-to bass, but honestly, I have them both on stands and almost have to flip a coin which one I practice on that day.

So far, I've told you several things, but I don't see a concrete reason in my answer, so it may not be very helpful. You really should get one and try it for yourself. All this writing and pontification is great, but you may find that it doesn't suit you. Hey, we're human and like different things, right? If you do get one and don't like it (after a considerable trial period, of course), it will be easy to sell.
 
#5
As Mr.O said it's kind of hard to describe. I got away from P basses for years. Then I bought a Fender Roscoe Beck V (more of a Jazz bass). After finding that to be my main bass I bought a Fender Precision V so that I had a backup that would feel at least somewhat similar to the RBV. The moment I played the PV I heard "that sound". So oddly enough the Roscoe Beck has become the backup.

Played the P bass yesterday in church. We did 3 songs. One had a very grindy modern pick tone. P bass (and a pick of course) nailed it. The second had a punchy finger picking pedal on 8th notes. P bass nailed it. The 3rd was a very warm mellow tone. P bass nailed it. Sound guy loved it. It just is what it is.

Would the Roscoe Beck have sounded plenty good? Yep. It is a fantastic instrument with incredible pickups. But the P bass just sounded "right".

It's like trying to describe the ocean to someone who has never seen it. How do you put that into words?

It's well worth a try if you can afford to pick one up. Worst case you end up back here starting a thread titled...
"Bought a P bass and I just don't get it."

:cool:
 
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#7
A good P is a good P. I've had a Peavey Fury and an affinity P blow everything else on the wall out of the water at a music store. It's hard to go wrong with such a bulletproof get the job done design. Wherever you make it, whatever you make it out of, if it's good it's good. Soooooo, decide how much you want to spend and shop around for the one that jumps out and says take me home.
 
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#8
I think it's about 90+ % the pickup. The split design, wide flat coils that are wired in series.
Then comes the placement, some non Fender P Basses vary from the traditional position and that's why they have a slightly different "flavor profile" than the Fenders, but not too much.
I've owned many P Bass variants over the last 48 years and as long as they hold to the pickup tradition they all had the P Bass "Thing"

As to the Mix question, P Basses have a sort of double O sound like Look or Book where as the Jazz Bass has a sort of short A type sound, like in the word Awesome, which, I believe, is due to the single pickup . Being wired in series there are more low mids, where as a 2 pickup Bass will have cancellation of the strings common frequencies.

Though I have owned String Rays which don't have that Basic single pickup tone flavor, but due to the active electronics the comparison is moot.

This phenomenon makes it more difficult but not impossable for [me] to mix a 2 pickup Bass, the denser the mix the less bass tone comes through.... Of course there are ALWAYS exceptions to any given situation during a mix session. (the wood the bass is made from contributes a bit but not as much as the strings) I may just raise the volume of the bass until it can be heard but more likely than not I'll use radical low end EQ on the instruments that are conflicting with the Bass sound.

As a player and recording engineer, I will almost always record with a P Bass or variant before I reach for a Jazz or any other Bass.

I've owned everything from an Fender American Deluxe P Bass to a SX P style and many Fender American Standards, MIM, MIJs & CIC and even the ones that have a bridge pickup still have that P Bass thing going on.

I just bought a Squire Vintage Modern PJ and it's great sounding and VERY well made, I would hazard to say it's as good as my last Fender Am. P Bass Standard though I do prefer the graphite neck rods and better wood but for the $$ the Squire is great.
 
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#9
topcat2069 said:
I think it's about 90+ % the pickup. The split design, wide flat coils that are wired in series.
Then comes the placement, some non Fender P Basses vary from the traditional position and that's why they have a slightly different "flavor profile" than the Fenders, but not too much.
I've owned many P Bass variants over the last 48 years and as long as they hold to the tradition they all had the P Bass "Thing"
As to the Mix question, P Basses have a sort of double O sound like Look or Book (for instance the Jazz Bass has a sort of short A type sound, like in the word Awesome) which, I believe is due to the single pickup. Being wired in series there are more low mids, where as a 2 pickup Bass will have cancellation of the strings common frequencies.
This phenomenon makes it harder for me mix a 2 pickup Bass, the denser the mix the less bass tone comes through.... Of course there are ALWAYS exceptions to any given situation during a mix session. (the wood the bass is made from contributes a bit but not as much as the strings)
but as a player and recording engineer, I will almost always record with a P Bass or variant before I reach for a Jazz.
I've owned everything from an Fender American Deluxe P Bass to a SX P style and many Fender American Standards, even the ones that have a bridge pickup still have that P Bass thing going on.

I just bought a Squire Vintage Modern PJ and it's great sounding and VERY well made, I would hazard to say it's as good as my last Fender Am. P Bass Standard.
Click to expand...


Thanks! this is a great response! I hadnt considered the fact that it just had 1 pickup as part of it. So to get this straight having 2 pickups on at the same level would create phasing that could potentially cancel out some wanted frequencies?
 
#10
It's my experience, don't disregard the pickup design and placement. My new Bass is a PJ Squire and there is some cancellation but that P Bass thing still comes through.

Oh yeah... just for your own knowledge, try your bass with both pickups on and then switch from single pickup [neck] to single pickup [bridge] then both again... and note if any frequencies get softer or louder in each setting.
 
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#13
BassDaddy77 said:
I think the pickup type and placement give you the tone. Single coil or split coil right smack in the middle, or "sweet spot."
Click to expand...
The single coil pickup on basses up to '56 is not at the same spot as either of the the coils of the split coil P/U on Basses from '57 onwards, I think.
What does remain the same is the scale length which they are not in the middle of either.

I like the P because it's tone doesn't annoy me even after a long time hearing and playing it/or basses of similar design.
 
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#14
Its the pickups and placement IMO. A good P bass just sits in the mix like no other bass tome for me. As far as models I have had good vintage thru Squiers and if they are good they are good.
Pup mods can 100% improve a P bass tone on most models , some it does little and with others makes it worse. You need to try different P types bass to see what you like.
Today my main P bass is an 80's MIK Squier . I redid the bass from neck finish to body, added a set of SD antiquity II 60's pups, CTS and orange drop cap, and an American vintage RI bridge. This thing sounds vintage as much as my 73P bass sounded and to me better.
 
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#15
They sound great with a band in the same way a single pickup Stingray sounds great live. Those mids jump right out and the lows are powerful. I think its teh pickup placement.

That said, I don't record with P's because I'm not a fan of the tone solo. Same with Stingrays.
 
#16
I'll jump in. My main bass is a 59 P that I have owned since I was 12 (if you look at my picture, you can tell that's a lot of years). I've tried lots of other basses - Lakland, Carvin, G&L, Yamaha, Rob Allen, others that I dont even remember. I have two other basses at the moment - a G&L fretless, and a Pat Wilkins Jazz Bass. At the end of the day, I always circle back to the P bass. It just sits right where you want it to be in the mix and just makes the overall band sound so good! Funny thing is that by itself (like when I am practicing) it just sounds so-so. But play it live and it just is magic. I use the Jazz for a few songs where I really need a more aggressive sound (I have it strung with Elixir coated strings) but for 99% of what I do, the P bass just sounds best.

Find one that feels comfortable to you - the necks over the years have been quite different. Personally I'm not a big fan of mods to P-basses, although bassbully's approach (above) sounds well thought out. . If you can afford it, take a look at the Pat Wilkins Road-Tested basses. Not cheap, but really great players. Good alternative to high-end Fenders and in my opinion, better value for $$.

Good luck on your quest!
 
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#19
I have two P's , both Fender mim's. They do sound a bit different from each other but that might be due to the fact that one has brand new strings on it. I played a couple of gigs pretty close together recently and played one at the first and the other at the next one. While there is one that I prefer over the other (slightly) I would have no problem being stuck with either one for the rest of my life. I just like the way they sound. I haven't yet heard an mia that I would trade either one for. (The Ampeg SVT that they are going through doesn't hurt.) I have two other basses. One I find close but no cigar and the other one comes in a distant third. I've played a couple of other basses through this amp and wasn't impressed with either one of them. That said , there are some P's out there that are real turds so it isn't a given that just getting any P will make musical nirvana for you. I played a friends ric 4001 at the house and liked the sound but not having played it in a band situation , I have no idea how it would work for me in the mix.
As to the science of it all , I have no freekin idea what it is about them that makes them sound the way they do , I just know I like it. YMMV
 
#20
If any sound guy or engineer doesn't know how to make a Ric "sit in the mix" they don't know what they are doing? and was every recording not done with a P crap? that cliche is so over used if any instrument in your band is not "sitting in the mix" and you don't know how to adjust things as a group then end it right there
 
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