There is this internal debate in one of the (jazz) bands I play with - when it comes to the end of the bass solo, it it incumbent on the player to make it obvious or to the band members to keep track of the number of bars used up in the solo? In a classical setting, you often count the bars to get your bearings...
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So, you have finished your bass solo...
- Thread starter AndyMopley
- Start date
Are you playing to a form? If so, the only real question is how many times through it you'll solo, which would either be discussed in advance or given by a cue.
If you're endlessly soloing over some kind of open vamp or looped short form then it would be on the soloist to make it clear when they are wrapping things up. It might be a musical cue, like going back to the bassline, or playing the melody, or just a visual cue to let everyone know they're done.
In a jazz setting, of all places, I'd expect the players to be ready to think on their feet and react to what's happening musically, rather than counting a specific number of bars and expecting everything to go exactly the same every performance.
If you're endlessly soloing over some kind of open vamp or looped short form then it would be on the soloist to make it clear when they are wrapping things up. It might be a musical cue, like going back to the bassline, or playing the melody, or just a visual cue to let everyone know they're done.
In a jazz setting, of all places, I'd expect the players to be ready to think on their feet and react to what's happening musically, rather than counting a specific number of bars and expecting everything to go exactly the same every performance.
as was just said by @JonathanPDX, it kinda depends. If the band is getting solos over a specific form, then it's usually some (usually even) number of times through the form. If it's just soloing over a repeated chord change vamp, then it's also usually an even number of times through the vamp changes and maybe the soloist cues the band back in. That's my experience anyway after doing this kind of thing for many decades.
good luck OP!
good luck OP!
If the guitarist gets 4 bars to noodle, then by God ,I get 4 bars too! 
Actually, not really being a jazz cat, "solos" are mostly short phrases most of the time (ala Brown eyed girl and such). But in jam type situations, I just play until I run outa something to say, then cue the band that I'm done.
Actually, not really being a jazz cat, "solos" are mostly short phrases most of the time (ala Brown eyed girl and such). But in jam type situations, I just play until I run outa something to say, then cue the band that I'm done.
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Another on the bandwagon for, "If you're playing within a structure over changes, everyone should know when to come in because they've been counting along, regardless of who's soloing."
If it's the traditional jazz 32 bar form, everyone gets 32 bars. Everyone should expect every solo to end after that player's 32 bar section.
If it's a song where the solos are over a specific section of song, say, "the chorus", everyone should know how many times around the chorus each solo is, and then be counting and ready to come in after the appropriate number of section repeats.
If it's free-form jazz, then it doesn't matter and everyone should just play whenever. (i'm mostly joking with this one, but also, a tiny bit serious.)
Musically, it's nice to have your solo either have a nice distinct conclusion, or blend seamlessly back into the next section of song. One of those styles will be more obviously ending than the other, though.
A solo is your time to speak, and what you're saying musically is hopefully more than just playing a bunch of arbitrary notes in the key. If it's not obviously ending or blending right back in to the head, what are you saying with your solo? When you're orating, you don't end a speech by saying "And now i'm done with my speech." It's how you say your conclusion that tells the listener you're done. Same goes for a music solo. If your bandmates are waiting for you to end your solo with "and now i'm done with my speech" (but in musical note form), that would be silly. They need to trust you'll end your solo in your allotted time, and you need to trust they're keeping track of time. And also, if your solo doesn't lead back to the head (or next section or whatever), is it really that musical of a solo?
And if everyone in the band is just soloing over arbitrary amounts of time regardless of the structure, form, or changes, maybe have a discussion about that. Because part of what gave jazz players the freedom to play was the fairly strict and predictable structure to play within.
If it's the traditional jazz 32 bar form, everyone gets 32 bars. Everyone should expect every solo to end after that player's 32 bar section.
If it's a song where the solos are over a specific section of song, say, "the chorus", everyone should know how many times around the chorus each solo is, and then be counting and ready to come in after the appropriate number of section repeats.
If it's free-form jazz, then it doesn't matter and everyone should just play whenever. (i'm mostly joking with this one, but also, a tiny bit serious.)
Musically, it's nice to have your solo either have a nice distinct conclusion, or blend seamlessly back into the next section of song. One of those styles will be more obviously ending than the other, though.
A solo is your time to speak, and what you're saying musically is hopefully more than just playing a bunch of arbitrary notes in the key. If it's not obviously ending or blending right back in to the head, what are you saying with your solo? When you're orating, you don't end a speech by saying "And now i'm done with my speech." It's how you say your conclusion that tells the listener you're done. Same goes for a music solo. If your bandmates are waiting for you to end your solo with "and now i'm done with my speech" (but in musical note form), that would be silly. They need to trust you'll end your solo in your allotted time, and you need to trust they're keeping track of time. And also, if your solo doesn't lead back to the head (or next section or whatever), is it really that musical of a solo?
And if everyone in the band is just soloing over arbitrary amounts of time regardless of the structure, form, or changes, maybe have a discussion about that. Because part of what gave jazz players the freedom to play was the fairly strict and predictable structure to play within.
Looking at the face of my female singer and/or my lead guitar tells me what’s next and when to stop.
A combination of “everyone counts” and “I play a musical cue”
I think a well conceived solo should have a clear and obvious conclusion
I think a well conceived solo should have a clear and obvious conclusion
For straight ahead trad jazz, when I'm done, I usually walk in the last 2 or 4 bars to the top of the form. If I'm taking two or more choruses, I do not walk between them.
D
Other - I awake, realizing me soloing is just a dream.
Playing music is a team sport and the way things are done can vary from one group to the next. Talk things out and negotiate. Be flexible. Give a little; take a little.
The way a solo works can vary a bit depending upon the nature of the tune and what the musicians want to do with it..
In most circumstances with jazz, IME you stick with the form. Your solo should come to a fairly obvious end. Then you should segue back into playing the bass line. Other players should be following the changes, even if they are not playing, unless of course they know the changes well enough to hear when the form is about to repeat. The way you end your solo and transition back to bass does not need to occur in any sort of specific way, but it should be musical. For example you might end the solo a bit early and transition back to bass on the turn around. Also the next solo doesn't necessarily have to start on the downbeat of the first bar. It's totally okay to ease into it.
In some instances you might vamp over a couple of bars, before going into the form. The soloist should give you a visual cue when he/she is ready to start playing the form. This something that should be worked out before starting the tune.
The solo may be totally open as well. For example I believe when playing Take 5, it's fairly common to just solo over Eb-7 to Bb-7, and not play the bridge. It's also possible to stick precisely with the form and play the bridge.
It's also possible that when the solos are done that band only plays the last section of the head, rather than playing the entire form again.
The way a solo works can vary a bit depending upon the nature of the tune and what the musicians want to do with it..
In most circumstances with jazz, IME you stick with the form. Your solo should come to a fairly obvious end. Then you should segue back into playing the bass line. Other players should be following the changes, even if they are not playing, unless of course they know the changes well enough to hear when the form is about to repeat. The way you end your solo and transition back to bass does not need to occur in any sort of specific way, but it should be musical. For example you might end the solo a bit early and transition back to bass on the turn around. Also the next solo doesn't necessarily have to start on the downbeat of the first bar. It's totally okay to ease into it.
In some instances you might vamp over a couple of bars, before going into the form. The soloist should give you a visual cue when he/she is ready to start playing the form. This something that should be worked out before starting the tune.
The solo may be totally open as well. For example I believe when playing Take 5, it's fairly common to just solo over Eb-7 to Bb-7, and not play the bridge. It's also possible to stick precisely with the form and play the bridge.
It's also possible that when the solos are done that band only plays the last section of the head, rather than playing the entire form again.
It can work this way (everyone gets one time through the form). This is not a hard fast rule though. Many groups allows players to solo over as many repeats of the form as they like. I frequently find it desirable to limit each solo to 2 times through the form. Some players will solo pretty much endlessly if you allow them to. In my experience, most people don't have anything interesting left to say after 2 times through
. I usually only do one time through 
.
I voted other. I don’t solo.
True story : I went to a jazz performance las night. Very famous trumpet player. Every time there was a bass solo , my mind started drifting away. I’m sure I fell asleep a couple of times. I can’t imagine what it was like for the rest of the audience.
True story : I went to a jazz performance las night. Very famous trumpet player. Every time there was a bass solo , my mind started drifting away. I’m sure I fell asleep a couple of times. I can’t imagine what it was like for the rest of the audience.
D
I am noodling and slapping when I want, as long as what I do is correct, it's in tempo, it doesn't deviate from the feel of the song, no one has anything to comment on.
There's nothing predetermined. But it's not about long solos, I mean, I'm not exaggerating, it's about short interventions, little improvisations, a slap thrown in from time to time. And always in such a way that it serves the song or the show. I know how to do solos, but I don't see the point of it if it doesn't serve a context.
Yes, if you feel that the audience wants something exciting, an extreme slap for example, you can throw yourself in, but it has to add value to the live band, not be to the detriment of the artistic moment.
There's nothing predetermined. But it's not about long solos, I mean, I'm not exaggerating, it's about short interventions, little improvisations, a slap thrown in from time to time. And always in such a way that it serves the song or the show. I know how to do solos, but I don't see the point of it if it doesn't serve a context.
Yes, if you feel that the audience wants something exciting, an extreme slap for example, you can throw yourself in, but it has to add value to the live band, not be to the detriment of the artistic moment.
I cue the end by falling back into the bass line for two bars, but it’s amazing how often it’s still a train wreck.
