Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[Eddie LeBlanc]

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800 + 750 + 900 = $2,450 USD ~x 1.30 = $3,185 CAD, plus Shipping and Brokerage fees from USA to Canada, plus Sales Tax in Ontario Canada is 13%, plus whatever duty might be charged at the border.

OR, if any store up here even sells these gems, their price would have to consider all of those factors, and they would charge us Canadians whatever they could....

My vehicle was about $2,800 CAD after all taxes and gummint fees were added.

BTW, up here, we even pay that pesky 13% sales tax on 2nd hand private vehicle sales when transferring ownership papers.

My original comments stand, including the salivation about the gorgeous rig. drool

So on another tangent, that lower cab has TWO speakers in it ?

What's the Caramilk secret ?
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Yes that was an older design Corner Fold that was built can can still be ordered at about the same price. Two Twelves, Neo B&C drivers, small foot print and weighs about 38 lbs. And tone from hell for sure. And you can order it in 8 or 4 ohms. (BTW, I only get 8 ohm cabs, because I can run multiple cabs) Call Jorg and he can hook you up.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/schroeder-1212-light-bass-cabinet-4-ohm

 

[agedhorse]

Corner Fold?

 

[scraig]

If you like the warmth and dynamic range of the tubes, you could go with a tube preamp and a solid state amp. I love my Demeter VTBP-201S tube preamp, and I go direct with a balanced output to the house board. I get complements every week on my sound. A good sound man helps. Tube driven amplifiers are not my preferred sound but I prefer a tube preamps. The Demeter preamp sounds great when used with a solid state amp. I have two solid state amps, Crown amp and a QSC amp. I have used them with the Demeter bass preamp.

 

[Passinwind]

Corner Fold?

Angled baffle behind the primary one on the front of the cab. So you have to look hard to see the second woofer.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Angled baffle behind the primary one on the front of the cab. So you have to look hard to see the second woofer.

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Ahhhh....

IOW, you could almost say "I see nothing !"

But seriously, it's a rather lightweight cab, even with with the 2x12 speakers, at least THAT model is, at 38 pounds.

Does this design increase the sensitivity and/or the power handling any more than conventional front-facing both drivers and using regular frontal ports, or is it mainly to save on the weight of the box ? (weight loss is still a worthy reason for doing it, if not losing out on any other spec in the process)
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[BurningSkies]

Corner Fold?

Schroeder 1212

 

[agedhorse]

and Schroeder 12-12L (Corner / Single Fold horn version), and a Schroeder 12 PL.

Angled baffle behind the primary one on the front of the cab. So you have to look hard to see the second woofer.

I think I was trying to figure out how this could be called a folded horn...

It's just an air mass loaded slot, nothing folded horn about it.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

View attachment 2924893

Schroeder 1212

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NOW I see it !

And your Flickr page reveals more.

So the two woofers are still wired in phase with each other, right ?

I think I feel another GAS attack coming on....
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[BurningSkies]

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NOW I see it !

And your Flickr page reveals more.

So the two woofers are still wired in phase with each other, right ?

I think I feel another GAS attack coming on....
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This cab is a mid-cannon. It's definitely hearable on stage, but doesn't have any deep lows that can fill a room. I found it somewhat punishing and fatiguing on my ears at volume for more than about an hour.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I think I was trying to figure out how this could be called a folded horn...

It's just an air mass loaded slot, nothing folded horn about it.

So sue me, that is what that was called and "advertised as" from folks like Peavey and the rest that built such cabs, way back when. The speaker fits into a corner, and has to push sound out in that corner. It did have an effect to move more volume of air than a front mounted speaker would, and tended to have more low end volume. So sue me, I'm just an ole dude that has been accumulating basses and equipment since the early 1960s. Hell I still have an Acoustic 370 Bass head in the garage.

I've gotten rid of the Alamo, Supro, Peavey, and Silvertone stuff I've had over the years though.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

~
NOW I see it !

And your Flickr page reveals more.

So the two woofers are still wired in phase with each other, right ?

I think I feel another GAS attack coming on....
~

The cab I have is dual 16 ohm B&C drivers wired in parallel, in phase, to be an 8 ohm cabinet. Jorg also would use 8 ohm B&C drivers to build a 4 ohm cabinet. All depends on what you wanted. He had several tweeter options.

I like mine, pretty tight bottom and and some real punch. People might want to argue on what to call it, but this design is not foreign to the market. And has been around for decades. It is just a little tougher to build and most manufactureres would rather just put in a speaker baffle and front mount two drivers. This cab takes a little more effort to construct.

That corner mounting does have a large effect on sound dispersion into the room, and for it's size this cabinet can be quite deceiving. Been in love with mine for many years. Other bass players have been astounded by it's capability also.

So call the design what you will, the damn thing works.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

This cab is a mid-cannon. It's definitely hearable on stage, but doesn't have any deep lows that can fill a room. I found it somewhat punishing and fatiguing on my ears at volume for more than about an hour.

The cab I have is dual 16 ohm B&C drivers wired in parallel, in phase, to be an 8 ohm cabinet. Jorg also would use 8 ohm B&C drivers to build a 4 ohm cabinet. All depends on what you wanted. He had several tweeter options.

I like mine, pretty tight bottom and and some real punch. People might want to argue on what to call it, but this design is not foreign to the market. And has been around for decades. It is just a little tougher to build and most manufactureres would rather just put in a speaker baffle and front mount two drivers. This cab takes a little more effort to construct.

That corner mounting does have a large effect on sound dispersion into the room, and for it's size this cabinet can be quite deceiving. Been in love with mine for many years. Other bass players have been astounded by it's capability also....

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As I (like many bassists now) am looking for cabs where weight is the primary constraint (to save my back etc), I am prepared to sacrifice portions of SOME of the other characteristics of whatever cabs I next choose, and I say that in plural, as I expect that it will likely take two of them to do it for me, especially if they end up being single driver designs.

I play mostly Country these days, but that often means needing somewhat more bottom end to the tone.

That said, if something like this Schroeder 1212 might do the job at about 38 pounds using Neo drivers, it could also be on my short list, depending on how well it would work, and the price vs. our gig calendar this year.

Then again, so could a 2x12 where both drivers face forward, if that does not increase the weight and maintains the sound quality and quantity.

Or I would be OK with two 1x12 cabs of perhaps 30 pounds, each using earlier magnet drivers, if that is doable and happens to save on my cost.

In this maze, there could be multiple paths to the cheese.
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[DavesnothereCA]

....That corner mounting does have a large effect on sound dispersion into the room, and for it's size this cabinet can be quite deceiving....

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Deceiving in a good way ?

Please expand your comment a bit.

And thanks for the detailed specs.
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[agedhorse]

So sue me, that is what that was called and "advertised as" from folks like Peavey and the rest that built such cabs, way back when. The speaker fits into a corner, and has to push sound out in that corner. It did have an effect to move more volume of air than a front mounted speaker would, and tended to have more low end volume. So sue me, I'm just an ole dude that has been accumulating basses and equipment since the early 1960s. Hell I still have an Acoustic 370 Bass head in the garage.

I've gotten rid of the Alamo, Supro, Peavey, and Silvertone stuff I've had over the years though.

Dude, why the attitude? What did I do to you to deserve such a response?

I was trying to figure out what that cabinet was from the (poor) pictures. While it was described as a folded horn, I couldn't see how it could possibly be one... which it isn't. Mystery cleared up, no reason to be disrespectful man.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Dude, why the attitude? What did I do to you to deserve such a response?

I was trying to figure out what that cabinet was from the (poor) pictures. While it was described as a folded horn, I couldn't see how it could possibly be one... which it isn't. Mystery cleared up, no reason to be disrespectful man.

My apology. Not meant to be disrespectful. Mea culpa.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

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Deceiving in a good way ?

Please expand your comment a bit.

And thanks for the detailed specs.
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The side loaded 12" actually pushes a lot of air, because it fires in to a controlled volume area (the wedge in the corner). I will not say folded horn, but it works in a similar principle. It will tend to augment lower tone, and wider dispersion due to that fact. It functions sort of like an air piston in moving air. Small initial movement, into a more confined location, generates a larger amount of air movement. Just plain physics. Same reason an air rifle works.

The nice thing about the cabinet is, it is a super small foot print on the stage. And in an 8 ohm version, can be paired with any other suitable 8 ohm cab (check and closely match the efficiency or SPL specs), to only put a 4 ohm load on your amp.

BTW. I can have both of my Schroeders in hand and walk onto a stage. And I'm an old fart that can't move that heavy stuff any more.

Contact Jorg, he'll be more than happy to talk with you, and describe options.
Personally I like using three twelves on stage. They can do more thatn a four ten cabinet, and typically have a lower frequency response. I only use Neos these days, and prefer B&C divers. I've had good luck with them, and they seem to be top quality. (and I have other cabs with other drivers also to compare to).

Schroeder cabs have B&C Neo drivers. And has had for a while. That is how he can get some pretty high efficiency ratings from his cabs. Usually in the 101 to 103 db SPL range, along with wide frequency response. And like I say, I have many other bassists choose my rig to play through many times on a combined equipment stage.

 

[GreyBeard]

The plain and simple fact is that tube amps sound/play somewhat different from either class A/B or D SS amps. If you prefer the way a particular tube amp sounds/plays and you can deal with the power/weight then buy all means play it. Just know that nobody else in the band or audience will care. Your other band mates are usually too much into their own sound to worry about yours as long as your gear is getting the job done. I personally prefer the clean, tight, full range articulate sound of my light weight class D amps. Nobody has ever complained about my sound other than once in a while it being too loud. Large quantities of beer are usually involved.

 

[agedhorse]

The 12" driver in the "resonant chamber" moves exactly the same amount of air as the other driver (which is equal to the driver's area times the axial displacement). It can't move any more than that without violating the laws of physics.

This has nothing at all to do with a horn or folded horn, which functions as an acoustic transformer. The transformer matches the acoustic impedances which improves acoustic power transfer between the driver and the air.

What it can do is change the velocity of the air displaced by reducing the area, but I don't think this is beneficial unto itself. The same thing happens when port area decreases, again a resonant principle in action, and in this case higher velocity is generally avoided.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

The 12" driver in the "resonant chamber" moves exactly the same amount of air as the other driver (which is equal to the driver's area times the axial displacement). It can't move any more than that without violating the laws of physics.

This has nothing at all to do with a horn or folded horn, which functions as an acoustic transformer. The transformer matches the acoustic impedances which improves acoustic power transfer between the driver and the air.

What it can do is change the velocity of the air displaced by reducing the area, but I don't think this is beneficial unto itself. The same thing happens when port area decreases, again a resonant principle in action, and in this case higher velocity is generally avoided.

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I was kind of scratching my head about that too, insofar as what factors might be improved or hurt by using this cab design over the simpler front facing of all woofers (which Schroeder and many other makers also offer, and now with the lighter Neo woofers as well).

Maybe some weight would be saved in the wood components by angling the one woofer, but what else might be lost in desired specs ?

Obviously power handling would be improved by using two woofers instead of one, but that spec's increase would hold true in either of the 2x12 cab designs.
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[kpc]

This cab is a mid-cannon. It's definitely hearable on stage, but doesn't have any deep lows that can fill a room. I found it somewhat punishing and fatiguing on my ears at volume for more than about an hour.

I owned one and it was very mid forward. Always cut thru the mix. Good if you like that kind of sound.