Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[BurningSkies]

I owned one and it was very mid forward. Always cut thru the mix. Good if you like that kind of sound.

Yeah, if you need to just hear to survive on stage this cab will do it. I found I missed the fullness of tone of traditional cabs, and if you're looking to 'fill the room' with bass from it, it's complete loss.

I also found that if I was playing up to volume in a live band setting this cab would give me a headache.

 

[Passinwind]

I owned one and it was very mid forward. Always cut thru the mix. Good if you like that kind of sound.

Yep. I rocked a 1210L for a while. But I greatly prefer Jorg's newer designs as far as the match up with my own tonal sensibilities.

 

[BurningSkies]

~
As I (like many bassists now) am looking for cabs where weight is the primary constraint (to save my back etc), I am prepared to sacrifice portions of SOME of the other characteristics of whatever cabs I next choose, and I say that in plural, as I expect that it will likely take two of them to do it for me, especially if they end up being single driver designs.

I play mostly Country these days, but that often means needing somewhat more bottom end to the tone.

That said, if something like this Schroeder 1212 might do the job at about 38 pounds using Neo drivers, it could also be on my short list, depending on how well it would work, and the price vs. our gig calendar this year.

Then again, so could a 2x12 where both drivers face forward, if that does not increase the weight and maintains the sound quality and quantity.

Or I would be OK with two 1x12 cabs of perhaps 30 pounds, each using earlier magnet drivers, if that is doable and happens to save on my cost.

In this maze, there could be multiple paths to the cheese.
~

Mine was purchased before the 'lite' version came out. It's a pretty hefty little cabinet (also deceiving for it's size). So I can't speak to the lighter version. I know that Jorg took a hit on the build on the later ones both in materials and fit/finish. Mine was good quality ply and the build was solid. Probably also notable in the fact that mine is a 8ohm cab, which was a rarity. The bulk of production was 4ohm.

As of now, this sits in our practice room and I use it every few weeks. It's also done double duty as a keys rig. But generally I wouldn't think of taking it out barring catastrophic circumstance.

 

[BurningSkies]

The 12" driver in the "resonant chamber" moves exactly the same amount of air as the other driver (which is equal to the driver's area times the axial displacement). It can't move any more than that without violating the laws of physics.

This has nothing at all to do with a horn or folded horn, which functions as an acoustic transformer. The transformer matches the acoustic impedances which improves acoustic power transfer between the driver and the air.

What it can do is change the velocity of the air displaced by reducing the area, but I don't think this is beneficial unto itself. The same thing happens when port area decreases, again a resonant principle in action, and in this case higher velocity is generally avoided.

In the end, this really is a 'lots of volume in a small package' but of course there are sacrifices across the frequency spectrum in a number of ways due to box volume, etc.

 

[seamonkey]

You can model these in winisd, just put two drivers is a box that is sized for one driver.
A cab that's too small will seem loud, because it will have a response bump in the midbass where the ear is more sensitive.
If you want loud and low, you'll need a bigger box.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I use mine with a Schroeder 1-12PL cab on top. It always seems to do the trick for me. And I like the dual cabinet, three 12 set up, and have been complemented by not only other bassists but sound techs also. Maybe it is the cabinet combination that works for me. But like I say, lite weight, small stage footprint, and ease of transport is essential to me these days. I don't do the dual four ten cabs or add a 15 cab, or haul a refrigerator, or any other back breaking stuff. And the B&C neos always come through for me.

BTW I also have a larger amp set up with these two cabs and an Epifany three 10 UL (it has the Eminence dual voice coil Neo drivers in it) , all of it powered by a Crown XLS 1500 with a Demeter Preamp. A lot more to move, but it smokes too.

But the three 10 dual voice coil EPI cab doesn't even come close to the set up with both Schroeder cabs.

 

[D-Smith]

But if you just love the old school stuff, that weighs a ton, be my guest. Just remember technology has come a long way in 5 decades. Do a Wiki search, the original SVT was a 1969 design. Most folks don't even realize that. Hell Apple computers weren't out until 1976. The electronic world has made leaps and bounds since the design of the SVT. But no one want to talk about that. I can never understand the thinking.

With roughly 96.8% of every thread in the Amp/Cabs section devolving into a class-D vs. tube or heavy vs. lightweight cab argument I'm not sure about that.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I use mine with a Schroeder 1-12PL cab on top. It always seems to do the trick for me. And I like the dual cabinet, three 12 set up, and have been complemented by not only other bassists but sound techs also. Maybe it is the cabinet combination that works for me. But like I say, lite weight, small stage footprint, and ease of transport is essential to me these days. I don't do the dual four ten cabs or add a 15 cab, or haul a refrigerator, or any other back breaking stuff. And the B&C neos always come through for me.

BTW I also have a larger amp set up with these two cabs and an Epifany three 10 UL (it has the Eminence dual voice coil Neo drivers in it) , all of it powered by a Crown XLS 1500 with a Demeter Preamp. A lot more to move, but it smokes too.

But the three 10 dual voice coil EPI cab doesn't even come close to the set up with both Schroeder cabs.

View attachment 2927862

Oh... By the way. That Crown XLS1500 is a Class "D" Amp. And can work into a 2 ohm load with ease.

 

[Rodslinger]

Sounds like my reaction when I first discovered the Mesa Subway D800! But then again I've never played through a tube amp. I just can't imagine the hassle of moving it around and constantly changing tubes. But if you can try a Mesa Subway, it's about as tubey as you're going to get from a small class D amp.

You’ve never played through a tube amp but suggest the Mesa is as tubey as it gets from a class D amp?

 

[Rodslinger]

Nokia phones....

Power tube wear out pretty fast..they can last a couple of years if used at home..but if used regularly at venues, they last about a year...

What? I toured, played & practiced with my SVT II non pro for years.not once did I ever have to change a tube. Bias adjustment yes, tube replacement after 8 years.

 

[Rodslinger]

They don't wear out after a year, though. And I don't need to buy a whole new set of transistors if I drop one on the concrete.

Tubes don’t wear out after a year either. That’s just stupid talk

 

[Stumbo]

Maybe @JimmyM might stop buy.
Or @Passinwind or @johnk_10 or @agedhorse....

 

[JimmyM]

Maybe @JimmyM might stop buy.
Or @Passinwind or @johnk_10 or @agedhorse....

OK...I have a decent little collection of both tube amps and micros. But while I like schlepping the micros better, I greatly prefer the tube amps

 

[Mark Andrew]

Tubes don’t wear out after a year either. That’s just stupid talk

Oh dear indeed a misinformed comment. In the absolute worst case with a regularly used guitar amp this is 2-3 years with the amps I've had. No idea where one year came from? I'm hoping for 5-10 on the lead sled but haven't had that one long enough to comment currently on 3 years but only light use. Talking power tubes not preamp of course....

 

[mmbongo]

Tubes don’t wear out after a year either. That’s just stupid talk

how long do guitar amp tubes last - Google Search

1000 hours is around 1 year of use, 3 hours a day.

 

[Mark Andrew]

how long do guitar amp tubes last - Google Search

1000 hours is around 1 year of use, 3 hours a day.

Luckily I don't have that much time to play every day . I heard of the el84 going home fast. What are the figures on the bigger tubes 6550s more relevant for bass amps? I have had troubles getting well matched octets that was apparently easier back in the day. But I'm seriously hoping for more than 1000 hours. Fingers crossed.......

 

[JimmyM]

how long do guitar amp tubes last - Google Search

1000 hours is around 1 year of use, 3 hours a day.

Is that use at fairly reasonable volumes using a clean sound or is it turning it up all the way to get power tube distortion? Because there is most definitely a difference in the amount of wear on the tubes in those wildly different scenarios.

There is no hard and fast rule on how long tubes last...some people might have to change them fairly often if they crank them hard on a regular basis, some people might get decades out of tubes if they don't. But anyone telling you that you should change them every year in every case is either a tube seller looking to sell more tubes or someone who buys into what a tube seller looking to sell more tubes tells them. As a matter of fact, that once-a-year thing originated with Aspen Pittman, former owner of Groove Tubes. Now I'm no tube amp engineer, but I'm here to tell you that my experiences with tube amps since 1979 tells me that it's 100% false.

 

[agedhorse]

In reasonable, non-hot rod applications, 2500-5000 hours is a reasonable expectation for power tubes. Even in our Black Pearl 30 amp, a class A slanted el84 design, 2500+ hours is very common and 5000 hours is not uncommon.

1000 hours might be true in an extreme design, but this is an exception to the rule IME.

 

[beans-on-toast]

If you drive a tube hard, it’s service life comes to an end quicker. Kind of like driving a car with the brakes on.

In general, with a master volume amp, if you crank the gain and set the master low, the preamps tubes will not last as long as if you cranked the master and used the gain to set the level.

In a conservative design, tubes can last a very long time. Even when the amp is played loud.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

In reasonable, non-hot rod applications, 2500-5000 hours is a reasonable expectation for power tubes. Even in our Black Pearl 30 amp, a class A slanted el84 design, 2500+ hours is very common and 5000 hours is not uncommon.

1000 hours might be true in an extreme design, but this is an exception to the rule IME.

Hi agedhorse,

long time no talk. I was wondering if you ever seen this topology with 2 triodes. It's from a 69 Univox 1221 50 Watter...I attached the schem as well. The circuit has a negative bias on one of the grids but the other one floats? It ties to the summing node of both channels, the tremolo and reverb circuits. What is it? A damper? A reference? Your thought would be much appreciated.