Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[jw23mind]

I've been dealing with this dilemma: preferring the sound of my 120W tube amp but wanting the clean power of my VT Bass 500 class-D. Haven't done it yet, but planning to tap the signal at the output transformer so I can slave the VT with the tube-sound signal, and at least double the power (split my 4x10 into a stereo pair of 2x10). Hoping to get the best of both worlds!

 

[chris_b]

I immediately felt groovier and a better bass player.

Don't ask us. . . . always play what sounds best to you.

 

[SunnBass]

Soup vs. Pizza

 

[arbitrary]

I love em. I have 3, one weights 40lbs and another weighs 90. But I also have a class D lightweight rig that sounds good. I don't like it as much as my tube amps, but it works great when I'm lazy.

 

[Dsmnoisemaker]

It is always about the design..not the device..there are class d amps that sound tubey and tube amps that sound like solid state..
Most of the "tube goodness", specially for bass, comes from a resonant peak at the low end, formed by the interaction of the high output impedance of the transformer, coupled with the speakers natural resonances..
Preamp tubes do not reproduce that effect, and when clean, they are as linear as an opamp or a transistor.. clipping is another thing there..but nothing to do with the frequency response of the amp..
Class D have a lot of power in small packages, but they are very flat in frequency response..the tone shaping must be done in the preamp, adding the "tubish" frequencies there, but they will not change if you change the speakers ( as tubes do)
I reproduced this effect on the omnicabsim, the resonant variable HPF gives that present bass but not overwhelming, tighter..
Transistor amps can reproduce this with clever designs..but they are not as efficient as class D

 

[husky123]

It is always about the design..not the device..there are class d amps that sound tubey and tube amps that sound like solid state..
Most of the "tube goodness", specially for bass, comes from a resonant peak at the low end, formed by the interaction of the high output impedance of the transformer, coupled with the speakers natural resonances..
Preamp tubes do not reproduce that effect, and when clean, they are as linear as an opamp or a transistor.. clipping is another thing there..but nothing to do with the frequency response of the amp..
Class D have a lot of power in small packages, but they are very flat in frequency response..the tone shaping must be done in the preamp, adding the "tubish" frequencies there, but they will not change if you change the speakers ( as tubes do)
I reproduced this effect on the omnicabsim, the resonant variable HPF gives that present bass but not overwhelming, tighter..
Transistor amps can reproduce this with clever designs..but they are not as efficient as class D

I can +1 that as you creation definitely “tubes up” my SS heads. You’ve done some pretty amazing analytics there....again very impressive.

Heck, I still have a good number of all tube amps that I run the OCS in front of. It just makes everything sound that much better.

 

[Dsmnoisemaker]

I can +1 that as you creation definitely “tubes up” my SS heads. You’ve done some pretty amazing analytics there....again very impressive.

Heck, I still have a good number of all tube amps that I run the OCS in front of. It just makes everything sound that much better.

At the end..it shows how important is the speaker and cabinet response in the final tone.. expensive tube amps come with very nicely voiced speakers and cabs..and solid state come with the cheapest crap they can find.. just think of the great difference that good pickups make to your tone...speakers are the same thing. But bigger

 

[bucephylus]

ok guys. As generic of a topic as this is I have a big dilemma.

If you check my sig, you will see that I am a (proud) owner of Aguilar amps.

They sound great and all but yesterday I tried to hook up a fender bassman tube clone.

Wow! I couldn't believe the sound I was getting. Barefaced big twin 2 has a renown of being a cab that is able to pump monstrous lows, that are sometimes even hard to control. But with the clone, every low note has a clear and round, veery warm low end that doesn't extend over the limits. What surprised me even more is that every note I played, even on higher registers is still meaty and has a great low mid presence and just keeps on going and seamlessly blends with the low notes with zero volume difference.

My aguilar amps work great as well but there was an obvious and immediate difference in the sound the moment I plugged in.

I immediately felt groovier and a better bass player.

Should I go after an all tube amp? I never played a solidstate with a similar warmth and meat to the sound and I am starting to think I never will.

The bassman clone was 40w and I couldn't believe how loud it actually was.

The size of these amps is bugging me though.

I wonder how that clone got 40W? IIRC, the Bassman, which I gigged for the first 15 of my gigging years had two power tubes running at 50W. My Brownface was modded with two additional tubes to run at 100W. I forget which tubes those were, but thought they were pretty standard.

Anyhow, first answer is that you should go with whatever amp does your gigs best for you.

My experience with tubes in the power section is that they do produce a certain spatial thing that gets called warmth or whatever, and which I can hear playing alone at home. But, that sound doesn’t optimize what I am looking for in a live mix, where pure power does better things for what I am looking for.

Secondly, the Aggie stuff has a definite somewhat “furry” voicing. Some cats really like it. Depends on whether you are looking for clean or not clean. In either case, That voicing definitely does NOT reproduce the thing the power tubes do.

Ultimately, you just need to get some different amps out on the gig to see what works best for you. I’m currently trying to sort out the whole ampless deal; so, a lot of my gigs now have no amp at all on stage. I like amps as much as the next cat; but that seems to increasingly be where things are going from my perspective.

 

[suededoesit]

Tubes wear out. They do not last forever.

No piece of gear lasts forever.

 

[DigitalMan]

Tubes wear out. They do not last forever.

Why am I constantly celebrating birthdays that are evenly divisible by 10?

 

[Dsmnoisemaker]

No piece of gear lasts forever.

Nokia phones....

Power tube wear out pretty fast..they can last a couple of years if used at home..but if used regularly at venues, they last about a year...

 

[suededoesit]

ok guys. As generic of a topic as this is I have a big dilemma.

If you check my sig, you will see that I am a (proud) owner of Aguilar amps.

They sound great and all but yesterday I tried to hook up a fender bassman tube clone.

Wow! I couldn't believe the sound I was getting. Barefaced big twin 2 has a renown of being a cab that is able to pump monstrous lows, that are sometimes even hard to control. But with the clone, every low note has a clear and round, veery warm low end that doesn't extend over the limits. What surprised me even more is that every note I played, even on higher registers is still meaty and has a great low mid presence and just keeps on going and seamlessly blends with the low notes with zero volume difference.

My aguilar amps work great as well but there was an obvious and immediate difference in the sound the moment I plugged in.

I immediately felt groovier and a better bass player.

Should I go after an all tube amp? I never played a solidstate with a similar warmth and meat to the sound and I am starting to think I never will.

The bassman clone was 40w and I couldn't believe how loud it actually was.

The size of these amps is bugging me though.

Should you go for an all tube amp? This ol' bugger? Tons of posts on this from every angle. And if you read any of them it will come down to the same things. But I'll save you a couple days of your life and sum it up for you.

The short answer is, "Yes, if you want to, and No, if you don't". Everybody is going to have their opinion on this and it's just that- their opinion. The only way to know is you have to sit down and play the thing. And then you have to weigh out (no pun intended) a couple things. There will be positives and negatives to both and EVERYBODY will have their opinions on those. But again, to truly know, you have to play both and then decide. Everybody has their idea on what's the best amp for (whatever). And I enjoy reading folks opinions on these things, but again, the only way to know if something is right YOU, is to utilize the gear as you do, and see if the thing works for you. It will or it won't.

 

[suededoesit]

Nokia phones....

Power tube wear out pretty fast..they can last a couple of years if used at home..but if used regularly at venues, they last about a year...

No science behind that at all. Tubes wear out for a variety of reasons. Tubes can last less than a couple years at home, or far more than a couple years. Tubes may last less than a year at venues, but quite often last much longer than that. The duration of tubes are attributed to lots of factors and to generalize in the way that you have is misleading and more often, just not true.

 

[Maxfenderbass]

For me,
I have 2 rigs. I have a Eden WT400 and Hartke 410 cab and a SVT rig.
The Eden is great, lighter, better at low volumes.
The SVT is an SVT tho, tone, tone and more tone. ALSO it take drive pedals amazing. Every time I run my drive pedals (BETA Germanium, B3K, MXR BD and EHX GRBM) the Eden sounds like poop compared.

A price to pay is the weight. This is why I only use my SVT rig at gigs.

 

[InhumanResource]

Why would you "constantly" change tubes?

Because it isn't a Mesa D800, of course.

 

[deathness]

If you've found a tone that inspires you, why hesitate? Figure out the bassman you want (to new/vintage, lower power/higher power, etc etc) and get it. Some players are satisfied with tube-ish emulation. Some are not. Either is fine but I think you know where you now stand.

Beautiful thing is no need to throw out your aggie ss amps. Great to have backups or amps for particular situations. But ime once you've started on an alltube amp it's hard not to want to play it all the time. A bit more maintenance but a well designed tube can last a looonnnng time if taken care of. My sunn sorado is almost 50 years old going strong.

Sounds like my reaction when I first discovered the Mesa Subway D800! But then again I've never played through a tube amp. I just can't imagine the hassle of moving it around and constantly changing tubes. But if you can try a Mesa Subway, it's about as tubey as you're going to get from a small class D amp.

Not trying to flame you, but you do see the inherent contradiction here? It's great that you found an amp you love but none of this seems relevant to the OP's sitch.

 

[Dsmnoisemaker]

No science behind that at all. Tubes wear out for a variety of reasons. Tubes can last less than a couple years at home, or far more than a couple years. Tubes may last less than a year at venues, but quite often last much longer than that. The duration of tubes are attributed to lots of factors and to generalize in the way that you have is misleading and more often, just not true.

Of course, bias current and class of operation makes a big difference..also vibrations and quality of the tubes..
Maybe i'm being conservative with power tubes duration..i have seen power tubes going bad after 1 year of use (class ab 30w), and i have a tube amp that i used very seldom, and the power tubes lasted like 5 years..
Maybe there are many factors that can extend the life of power tubes..but I'm not lying.. everyone knows power tubes die after a while.. if you have a recipe for everlasting power tubes, then call me a liar..

Cheers

 

[allenhumble]

The Reeves custom 225 has me itching to try out. Acorn amplification in Atlanta has a bass amp in the works due for production in December. I'm going down this weekend to check them out.

Test Page Title

I currently play Monique through bergantino ip cab. Just curious what all tube would sound like. I dig more modern sounding/full range cabs.

 

[suededoesit]

Of course, bias current and class of operation makes a big difference..also vibrations and quality of the tubes..
Maybe i'm being conservative with power tubes duration..i have seen power tubes going bad after 1 year of use (class ab 30w), and i have a tube amp that i used very seldom, and the power tubes lasted like 5 years..
Maybe there are many factors that can extend the life of power tubes..but I'm not lying.. everyone knows power tubes die after a while.. if you have a recipe for everlasting power tubes, then call me a liar..

Cheers

Yes, power tubes die after awhile...you got us there. Can't argue that point.

 

[40Hz]

Tubes wear out. They do not last forever.

They don't wear out all that often based on my own experiences if you're not abusing the amp.