Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[40Hz]

If you want the tube sound you need a tube power stage. A tube preamp alone isn't going to sound like a full tube amp will. And the attack and response will definitely be different with a solid-state power stage even if you are pushing it with a 12AX7 or similarly based preamp.

At this point in music technology, if you want the full tube experience and sound, then you'll still need to get an all tube amp. Would that it were otherwise. Nobody would be happier to ditch the extra weight and dodge the expense of tubes than I would. But so it goes.

 

[StayLow]

If you call "constantly" about 10 years between tube changes.... no they do not need constant change. nearly all ss amp guys I know have bought several new amps in that time frame.

Sorry, but even the D800 doesn't sound anything like their tube amps. I bought one, it sounded absolutely nothing like my Strategy or my Bass 400, and couldn't even cop the glassy high end of a tube amp.

Agreed. I was very surprised to see it mentioned to someone looking for a tube-like amp.

 

[Sparkl]

Thanks guys for all the info. I am currently looking at Ampegs SVT CL and V4b.

I am not too sure that I need the 300W tube power since I am not playing 100k people shows lol.

Otoh I have realized that the V4b and CL don't sound the same. They have quite a different voicing as far as I heard.

The V4b does weigh half less though which is more than welcome of course.

And one more thing - is there any difference in the ampeg heritage and non heritage line besides the made in usa thing and different cosmetics?

Edit: Oh, and please do continue the discussion, I could sure use as much info as possible. I appreciate it.

 

[Bassmec]

Tubes wear out. They do not last forever.

Solid State amps wear out too, nothing lasts forever.

 

[mmbongo]

Solid State amps wear out too, nothing lasts forever.

They don't wear out after a year, though. And I don't need to buy a whole new set of transistors if I drop one on the concrete.

 

[EatS1stBassist]

ok guys. As generic of a topic as this is I have a big dilemma.

If you check my sig, you will see that I am a (proud) owner of Aguilar amps.

They sound great and all but yesterday I tried to hook up a fender bassman tube clone.

Wow! I couldn't believe the sound I was getting. Barefaced big twin 2 has a renown of being a cab that is able to pump monstrous lows, that are sometimes even hard to control. But with the clone, every low note has a clear and round, veery warm low end that doesn't extend over the limits. What surprised me even more is that every note I played, even on higher registers is still meaty and has a great low mid presence and just keeps on going and seamlessly blends with the low notes with zero volume difference.

My aguilar amps work great as well but there was an obvious and immediate difference in the sound the moment I plugged in.

I immediately felt groovier and a better bass player.

Should I go after an all tube amp? I never played a solidstate with a similar warmth and meat to the sound and I am starting to think I never will.

The bassman clone was 40w and I couldn't believe how loud it actually was.

The size of these amps is bugging me though.

I dragged an SVT 300 watt tube head around along with the behemoth 9v10 speaker cab (yes it had nine speakers) in the 70’s not much fun except when you plugged in your bass. Lol. Nothing like it. I spent the next 30 years trying to recapture the sound and brutal force of that amp in various bass rigs. Close but no cigar!! One day I plugged into an Acoustic 600B and there it was. I tried it with every bass cab and bass in GC that day. Wow what a great amp!
No lightweight but doable. Solidstate.
I use it With an SWR Triade Cab. This rig sounds every bit as good as my old All tube Heavyweight.

 

[pigpen1]

I have an Aguilar AG700 into an AudioKinesis Hathor 1203, super punchy and clean but definitely not hitting tube territory. I use a Keeley Compressor Pro and a Two Notes LeBass in front of it, still get the punch that I like, but with the added balance of the compressor and the tubey goodness of the preamp pedal. I'd love to have a real tube amp, but this gets me close enough without having to deal with the carry.

Can you get a "round" tone with good bottom on the AG 700? I have trouble with this on my TH 500.

 

[BaltBass5]

This is more of the same debate.

Personally, I’ve never heard ANYTHING that sounds as warm, delicious and meaty as an all tube head. Having said that, it all comes down to this:

Tubes - finicky, heavy, high maintenance cost.

Solid State - lose some feel and tone IMO, lightweight, low maint.

For me...I went hybrid. Tube pre, warm tone, relatively lightweight <20 lbs and extremely roadworthy.

It’s a personal decision.

 

[Tim1]

As a diehard all tube head user I find myself in the unusual position of stating that my Mesa 800+ gets "close enough" to my many tube heads to make me happy. This goes against much of what I have posted in the past about solid state/class D so I have been pondering why I have changed my views a little.
The conclusion, I have realized, is that since last time I tried gigging a non-tube head I have also moved into the Barefaced 10 cabinet range (two One 10s and a Four 10) which is specifically designed to replicate the old time tubey sound, unlike their twelves which are very transparent. Combine a cabinet designed in such a way with a fairly versatile 800+ and you get closer to tube with a solid state rig than I have ever managed in the past. Granted, the tube heads still get most work but my band mates certainly don't complain when the little subway comes out.

 

[pigpen1]

I actually really like the newer Fender bassman hybrid heads. I'd buy one in a second if they were MIA.

 

[mmbongo]

As a diehard all tube head user I find myself in the unusual position of stating that my Mesa 800+ gets "close enough" to my many tube heads to make me happy. This goes against much of what I have posted in the past about solid state/class D so I have been pondering why I have changed my views a little.
The conclusion, I have realized, is that since last time I tried gigging a non-tube head I have also moved into the Barefaced 10 cabinet range (two One 10s and a Four 10) which is specifically designed to replicate the old time tubey sound, unlike their twelves which are very transparent. Combine a cabinet designed in such a way with a fairly versatile 800+ and you get closer to tube with a solid state rig than I have ever managed in the past. Granted, the tube heads still get most work but my band mates certainly don't complain when the little subway comes out.

Well said!

 

[Sunset Shalom]

Tubes wear out. They do not last forever.

Many vintage tubes from decades ago are still highly sought after, either as NOS or in decent condition. They can hold up for years of use though.

Nah I just can't see using a tube amp every day. Man the last tube amp anything I had was a Soldano guitar head. I do miss that amp! Just couldn't justify having a $2500 amp sitting around for occasional 6 string wankery although I hope to be in that financial position again someday

My tube amp for guitar was 500$ new including shipping and it weighs like 70 pounds and is 120 watts

SS amps can be very expensive too when fancy, but there are plenty of great cheaper old tube amps out there as well as newer budget amps.

 

[JimmyM]

Tubes wear out. They do not last forever.

Yeah but it's not constant changing out. Not even close to constant, really, unless you insist on turning it up to the point of distortion.

They don't wear out after a year, though. And I don't need to buy a whole new set of transistors if I drop one on the concrete.

I'll bet the repair bill is pretty close.

BTW, my Heritage SVT: 4 years on the stock tubes. V4B: Same. PF-50T: 2 years. 64 B-15N: 9 on the power tubes, 3 on the pre tubes.

 

[J-Bassomatic]

Why do they have to be so big and heavy??

To toughen you up!

 

[Sunset Shalom]

To toughen you up!

My tube combo weighs like 77 pounds but with it's handles I have never had an issue moving it by myself. Right now I have it up on a table a few feet of the ground so it projects it's sound perfectly drool

I imagine having a head + cab would be much easier too as you could move them separately, also it's not like you need a huge 100watt+ 2x12 tube combo. People get by with way less even on big tours.

 

[P-oddz]

Sounds like my reaction when I first discovered the Mesa Subway D800! But then again I've never played through a tube amp. I just can't imagine the hassle of moving it around and constantly changing tubes. But if you can try a Mesa Subway, it's about as tubey as you're going to get from a small class D amp.

If you've never played a tube amp, how can you claim an amp is "tubey"? No offense, but I see that term thrown out a lot with seemingly little understanding of its meaning.
Also (as others have addressed) the replacement tubes thing is really blown out of proportion by those who don't normally play tube amps.

 

[Sparkl]

My tube combo weighs like 77 pounds but with it's handles I have never had an issue moving it by myself. Right now I have it up on a table a few feet of the ground so it projects it's sound perfectly drool

I imagine having a head + cab would be much easier too as you could move them separately, also it's not like you need a huge 100watt+ 2x12 tube combo. People get by with way less even on big tours.

Problem is that an Ampeg SVT CL weighs the same as your combo on its own.

 

[Sparkl]

To add, thing I like the most about tube amps is that they extend the harmonics of your note in such ways that you could only imagine on an ss amp.

I literally heard sounds yesterday I didn't know existed on my bass before.

 

[SactoBass]

Thanks guys for all the info. I am currently looking at Ampegs SVT CL and V4b.

Sparkl: also take a look at the SVT-VR. I have owned a CL, a V4B (vintage), and a VR. IMO, the VR had the most appealing tone (to my ears anyway!)

Enjoy your amp shopping! It's fun!

 

[EatS1stBassist]

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