Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[Luckydog]

2 early 70's svt's that I've owned for almost 25 years. A whole lot of use on both and one full retube on one and a partial on the other during that period.

3 early 70's V4's that I've owned about the same amount of time, and used moderately often in loud gigs. Partial retube on the 3 and caps on one.

2 60's B15's owned approximately the same time, with lots of home milege. No work on one, and partial tube change on the other.

1 SB12 owned approximately the same amount of time. Moderate home use, no work done on it.

Where are ppl getting the idea that annual retubing is required or desired?

 

[EatS1stBassist]

2 early 70's svt's that I've owned for almost 25 years. A whole lot of use on both and one full retube on one and a partial on the other during that period.

3 early 70's V4's that I've owned about the same amount of time, and used moderately often in loud gigs. Partial retube on the 3 and caps on one.

2 60's B15's owned approximately the same time, with lots of home milege. No work on one, and partial tube change on the other.

1 SB12 owned approximately the same amount of time. Moderate home use, no work done on it.

Where are ppl getting the idea that annual retubing is required or desired?

Older tubes can last decades. Newer versions sometimes can’t

 

[JimmyM]

If you've never played a tube amp, how can you claim an amp is "tubey"? No offense, but I see that term thrown out a lot with seemingly little understanding of its meaning.
Also (as others have addressed) the replacement tubes thing is really blown out of proportion by those who don't normally play tube amps.

What bugs me about people who never played tube amps claiming tubiness is that usually, they're talking about overdrive. And that is so not the definition of tubiness. Not saying Bongo's doing it, but that generally seems to be what's going on.

2 early 70's svt's that I've owned for almost 25 years. A whole lot of use on both and one full retube on one and a partial on the other during that period.

3 early 70's V4's that I've owned about the same amount of time, and used moderately often in loud gigs. Partial retube on the 3 and caps on one.

2 60's B15's owned approximately the same time, with lots of home milege. No work on one, and partial tube change on the other.

1 SB12 owned approximately the same amount of time. Moderate home use, no work done on it.

Where are ppl getting the idea that annual retubing is required or desired?

From tube sellers whose job it is to sell you tubes. Aspen Pittman from Groove Tubes wrote a book on it that was so full of poop about changing tubes regularly, and for some reason, that has become the unofficial Bible of tube amps for people who don't know anything about them.

 

[Bassmec]

They don't wear out after a year, though. And I don't need to buy a whole new set of transistors if I drop one on the concrete.

I have had a set of tubes in a Simms Watts AP 200 Super made by Brimar for the 12ax7's and GEC for the KT88's.
Those tubes were still performing well after 20 years of service in my busy Rehearsal Studio.
I have an RCA OP-6 portable amplifier where the original 1620 tubes date code 1938 still perform quite well.
But not quite as well as the early fifties 6J7's I replaced them with.
New production tubes don't last like the old quality ones though.
But 1 year service life must be a recommendation by a greedy tube sales business, nothing to do with a recommendation by an experienced engineer who knows how to bias output tubes properly.

 

[agedhorse]

Nokia phones....

Power tube wear out pretty fast..they can last a couple of years if used at home..but if used regularly at venues, they last about a year...

Going to have to disagree with this statement.

Tube life depends on many factors, many of which cone down to choices made in circuit design.

I have seen amps with several thousand hours in power tubes and they tested/sounded just fine. It's not uncommon for a set of power tubes to last 5-10 years, longer in some circuits and shorter in other circuits.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I’ve played all three and I’m an SVT classic guy. Nothing comes close.

 

[NecroticImbecil]

Hey! Thanks for the info. Seems like I really have to give the subway a shot

I am certainly looking for smoothness in tone, which basically all tube amps have loads of, with the addition of also being capable of going into the healthy grind mode with zero harshness to it, just pure warmth. I am an absolute fan of this sound. There is just something so natural about it, also with this mild tube compression going on.

Hopefully the subway delivers, just have to wait for a nice sale.

I am still not done with tube amps though

My experience is that ss amps can get close to it and sound satisfactory on its own (especially if you have no tube amp lying around for an immediate comparison), but it really shocks you when you plug into a real tube thing.

Why do they have to be so big and heavy??

FWIW a 40 watt head is not big and heavy in the tube world. Maybe start with a 20 watt, do some reps with it every day until it gets easy, then trade it in for the 40. Repeat the cycle until you are both hugely muscled and the owner of a 300+ watt tube head.

 

[deathness]

Op: if fender bassman is your sound, frenzel makes a 100 watt bassman that's 25 lbs. Haven't tried it but it's worth a look in addition to the ampegs on your list, newer bassmans (300 and 100 versions) plus vintage bassman like the Silverface 100/135.

 

[Drgonzonm]

Tube amp and SS owner. Short life on power tubes is because someone is putting more voltage through the tubes than what tubes were designed for. a tube should give a life of 10,000 hours. in bass amp service 1,000 to 2,000 hours.
Bass amps have larger Output transformers than guitar amps, its a frequency thing.
SS amps do not require output transformers, so they are lighter.
Tubes generally provide more even harmonics than ss. the odd harmonics are reportly irritating.

If you wnat to play a tube amp, make sure to have a good mic, and stand so you mic the amp and run it through the PA. Watch the PBS specials, the tube amps on stage are mic'ed.

Class D amps are almost twice as efficient as a tube amp, sometimes 4 to 5 times.

If you like tube amps, then consider the fact, they are heavy, and it is harder and harder to find tube amp techs.

 

[pigpen1]

Problem is that an Ampeg SVT CL weighs the same as your combo on its own.

Man, you look young enough in your pic, that 80 lbs shouldn't be an issue, and you obviously you enjoy the tube sound, so I think you should get the tube amp. Keep your others too.

 

[JimmyM]

If you like tube amps, then consider the fact, they are heavy, and it is harder and harder to find tube amp techs.

No it's not

 

[pigpen1]

2 early 70's svt's that I've owned for almost 25 years. A whole lot of use on both and one full retube on one and a partial on the other during that period.

3 early 70's V4's that I've owned about the same amount of time, and used moderately often in loud gigs. Partial retube on the 3 and caps on one.

2 60's B15's owned approximately the same time, with lots of home milege. No work on one, and partial tube change on the other.

1 SB12 owned approximately the same amount of time. Moderate home use, no work done on it.

Where are ppl getting the idea that annual retubing is required or desired?

Why would anyone retube an amp that sounds good and works reliably? People exaggerate this need to work on tube amps.

 

[Master Chief]

Have you considered trying something like the LeBass, or the old EBS ValveDrive (I think that's what it was called)? Both are great tube preamps that might be able to deliver the tone/feel you're looking for, without the weight and hassle of a full-on all-tube head.

While I haven't tried it myself, the LeBass does sound good on videos. However, if money is not an issue, also check out the Verellen Meatsmoke Preamp.

 

[JimmyM]

Why would anyone retube an amp that sounds good and works reliably? People exaggerate this need to work on tube amps.

Because they were told to do so by tube sellers for decades.

 

[pbassjbass]

I've played tube amps for years (40+, mostly fender flavors). First thing I learned, was don't put the head on the cabinet. I set it on the floor, no need to shake things to pieces. I've never replaced power tubes. Maybe my ears are fried, but I didn't hear a need.

 

[The Regulator]

Nothing like an Ampeg SVT-CL, but at my age and with a bad back, a GK MB500 with a SansAmp VT Bass pedal into a Fender Neo 610 gets the job done. Especially since that whole rig weighs in at ~85 lbs, almost the same weight as the Ampeg head.

 

[Plectrum72]

Don't be afraid to check out other tube heads besides Ampeg and Fender. Both great, but not the only options. I found my happy medium with a Peavey VB-2. 225W, 60lbs, versatile eq with switchable low-mid frequency. Ohm selector switch for 2, 4, or 8 ohms. Jack of all trades with dialing up sounds, reasonable compromise on power and weight.

Bottom line, try everything you can and buy what works for your sound, weight, budget, gig situation.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It is always about the design..not the device..there are class d amps that sound tubey and tube amps that sound like solid state..
Most of the "tube goodness", specially for bass, comes from a resonant peak at the low end, formed by the interaction of the high output impedance of the transformer, coupled with the speakers natural resonances..
Preamp tubes do not reproduce that effect, and when clean, they are as linear as an opamp or a transistor.. clipping is another thing there..but nothing to do with the frequency response of the amp..
Class D have a lot of power in small packages, but they are very flat in frequency response..the tone shaping must be done in the preamp, adding the "tubish" frequencies there, but they will not change if you change the speakers ( as tubes do)
I reproduced this effect on the omnicabsim, the resonant variable HPF gives that present bass but not overwhelming, tighter..
Transistor amps can reproduce this with clever designs..but they are not as efficient as class D

So a resonant filter effect before an SS amp would work? What sort of HPF frequency and filter type?

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Maybe a lightweight 5W tube amp and suitable speaker to provide the resonance, and a speaker level DU built in would sell. Enough for bedroom practice, and then hook up the DI to your class D power amp and 2x15 for a gig. If I'd kept my little 5W Electar guitar amp I could have had a go as I have a speaker level DI.

 

[baxter_x]

Could anyone tell me what a tubey sound is??
It seems that it's a warm ans massive sound, according to what I've read many times. But to me an SS amp can do that too.