Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[Dsmnoisemaker]

I do think it's a huge and potentially profitable myth with most amps, and I have the test data to back up my opinion.

most definitely.. tube amps need almost no research and development. circuits are simple and straightforward, and are very reliable (without considering the tubes).. if you have access to cheap source of xformers, the cost of manufacture is about the same or slightly more than a SS or class D.. most of the extra price of tube amps comes from their freight cost..the rest is just mktg.. peavey makes some nice tube amps at just about the same price as a their good SS amps..

 

[agedhorse]

The cost of tube amp manufacture is considerably more than the cost of solid state of any type if you consider like type feature sets. It's not even close, and the metalwork/cabinetry is more expensive to support the weight.

 

[Dsmnoisemaker]

The cost of tube amp manufacture is considerably more than the cost of solid state of any type if you consider like type feature sets. It's not even close, and the metalwork/cabinetry is more expensive to support the weight.

yes you´re right..for similar features, it will be much more..

 

[GreyBeard]

If you want the tube sound you need a tube power stage. A tube preamp alone isn't going to sound like a full tube amp will. And the attack and response will definitely be different with a solid-state power stage even if you are pushing it with a 12AX7 or similarly based preamp.

At this point in music technology, if you want the full tube experience and sound, then you'll still need to get an all tube amp. Would that it were otherwise. Nobody would be happier to ditch the extra weight and dodge the expense of tubes than I would. But so it goes.

That has been my experience to. Tube pre->SS power has a sound of its' own. Not all tube nor all SS.

 

[bouncy]

The meaty warm tone from tube amp is truly addictive.
A well designed and maintained tube amp can last forever and continue to hold the value. The Ampeg V4b that I got recently was from 74, it was used at home and well taken care by previous owner. it feeds to a cab loaded with altec 421, the sound is so good. I keep telling my wife if it doesn't sound good, it isn't the amp or the bass, it is me!

 

[40Hz]

That has been my experience to. Tube pre->SS power has a sound of its' own. Not all tube nor all SS.

Yep. Got a few all tube amps, one tube pre hybrid, and a few solit-state amps. Each have their own character and feel.
I like all three for different reasons. But I suspect I'll always prefer an all tube sound. Probably because I started with a B-15N back when dinosaurs roamed the earth. And that sound is burned into my brain as being what a bass "should" sound like. If I started with the modern fast transient response and hi-fi amps like today's I'd probably prefer those.

 

[Drgonzonm]

Maybe a lightweight 5W tube amp and suitable speaker to provide the resonance, and a speaker level DU built in would sell. Enough for bedroom practice, and then hook up the DI to your class D power amp and 2x15 for a gig. If I'd kept my little 5W Electar guitar amp I could have had a go as I have a speaker level DI.

Most low wattage tube amps are SE, single ended. IMO, bass players need to stay away from SE tube amps, because of saturation of the output transformer. IMO you need a PP amp, push pull, which would likely require EL84 tubes. A low wattage non PI (phase inverter) can be made, but am not sure if they are commercially available.
For low wattage, look at audiophile designs. Guitar amps can be blown up by a bass, (say good bye to the speaker).

If you are using a DI, then make a low wattage power amp, the DI will serve as your PI. (Use 12AU7 tubes for the power tubes).

 

[Drgonzonm]

Could anyone tell me what a tubey sound is??
It seems that it's a warm ans massive sound, according to what I've read many times. But to me an SS amp can do that too.

Big brass instruments, like a sousaphone?

 

[JimmyM]

I admit I based my point of view on my feelings, but also on the last Metallica's rig rundown where both guitar techs explain they only now use AxeFx and Matrix SS power amp.
Because "it's way more reliable, always sounds the same and can handle heavy touring, unlike tube amps"

Well if Metallica said it, it must be true. Yet they heavily toured with them for 35 years.

 

[Drgonzonm]

With all due respect, I don't know what conclusion you think people should be drawing from that observation. There's several reasons for a sound professional electing to put a mic in front of a bass amp. And none of them have anything whatsoever to do with whether or not the amp is tube driven.

PA's by design are neutral. It doesn't matter whether its a guitar amp, or bass amp, The band or individual playing sets up the sound the way they want, and the board person, then adjusts the volume to the room. Everybody's happy. I spoke to my favorite sound guy Mark Enriquez.

 

[Drgonzonm]

most definitely.. tube amps need almost no research and development. circuits are simple and straightforward, and are very reliable (without considering the tubes).. if you have access to cheap source of xformers, the cost of manufacture is about the same or slightly more than a SS or class D.. most of the extra price of tube amps comes from their freight cost..the rest is just mktg.. peavey makes some nice tube amps at just about the same price as a their good SS amps..

Please don't tell the audiophiles this. They are willing to play $2400 for a matched pair of 60w power triodes.
The component count on SS amps is significantly higher than a tube amp. You would have to be crazy, and some of us are, to build a point to point amp.
IMO, bass amps and audiophile amps are more similarly designed than say guitar amps and bass amps.
Regarding features, SS design is simpler because of PNP and NPN technology. Tubes have only one flavor.

 

[baxter_x]

Well if Metallica said it, it must be true. Yet they heavily toured with them for 35 years.

.... And swapped to SS amp and emulation for the reason I explained earlier

 

[catcauphonic]

I was on my way to the rehearsal space one day last year, and got rear ended on i405. My (1975?) V4B took a spill from sitting upright forward facing on the back seat of the Subaru to upside down on the floor ... i was more worried about the amp head than I was the car Turned out it played just fine when i got there, and has been ever since ... though there may be a volume issue, since my drummer often keeps motioning me to turn it down

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Most low wattage tube amps are SE, single ended. IMO, bass players need to stay away from SE tube amps, because of saturation of the output transformer. IMO you need a PP amp, push pull, which would likely require EL84 tubes. A low wattage non PI (phase inverter) can be made, but am not sure if they are commercially available.
For low wattage, look at audiophile designs. Guitar amps can be blown up by a bass, (say good bye to the speaker).

If you are using a DI, then make a low wattage power amp, the DI will serve as your PI. (Use 12AU7 tubes for the power tubes).

To be fair I think the Electar was SE, but maybe it would have worked if working very gently. I never got as far as detaching it from the internal speaker and trying it on a bass cab.

 

[GreyBeard]

The meaty warm tone from tube amp is truly addictive.
A well designed and maintained tube amp can last forever and continue to hold the value. The Ampeg V4b that I got recently was from 74, it was used at home and well taken care by previous owner. it feeds to a cab loaded with altec 421, the sound is so good. I keep telling my wife if it doesn't sound good, it isn't the amp or the bass, it is me!

It is true that tube amps have held their value where SS amps have not.

 

[JimmyM]

.... And swapped to SS amp and emulation for the reason I explained earlier

Well if they're happy, I'm happy for them. Some do make the switch. And some don't. Some make the switch and switch back at their earliest convenience, too. All I know is that their situation is irrelevant to mine, although since I'm playing outdoors on a rainy day today, my setup will be all solid state because I don't want my nice tube stuff getting rained on. Has nothing to do with what Metallica's doing, though

 

[baxter_x]

Well if they're happy, I'm happy for them

I'm not pretending that's the way to go and if you don't you are wrong!
That just seems to confirm my point of view over the Tube vs SS amp thing.

 

[JimmyM]

I'm not pretending that's the way to go and if you don't you are wrong!
That just seems to confirm my point of view over the Tube vs SS amp thing.

Well I guess it would if you're traveling with 10 amps that are getting cranked as hard as possible and are being loaded in and out by local union hands into semis. But most of us just bring one, maybe two and one is a backup, and we're mostly toting them in cars and vans. Sure, you'll throw a tube occasionally, but the risk of them breaking down all the time is greatly exaggerated. And when you drop an SS amp, there's as much risk that you'll have to do repair work on it as a tube amp. That's why James and Kirk have backup Axe-FX's.

I noticed they never showed Rob's setup, though. I wonder what he's doing.

 

[pigpen1]

PA's by design are neutral. It doesn't matter whether its a guitar amp, or bass amp, The band or individual playing sets up the sound the way they want, and the board person, then adjusts the volume to the room. Everybody's happy. I spoke to my favorite sound guy Mark Enriquez.

What do you mean by 'neutral'? That a PA will closely reproduce with little coloration the inputs its given? That's fine, but if it were just about 'adjusting the volume to the room' then anyone could be a sound guy. There is lot of post input processing and equalization going on before it hits the speakers.

 

[baxter_x]

but the risk of them breaking down all the time is greatly exaggerated

It's really the fact they break down, it's more a matter of realiability. As they mention in the interview, they tend to sound a bit diferent everytime.

I noticed they never showed Rob's setup, though. I wonder what he's doing.

True, I asked myself the same question! I bet 1M$ on a SVT 2 or SVT-CL