Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[baxter_x]

I'll pass on debating this go-round because I find the next paragraph way more interesting. At least for tonight. But we'll come back to it eventually, I'm sure

Actually I agree 120% with what @agedhorse stated.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

Nokia phones....

Though, mine is acting weirdly, I'm afraid... it somehow has lost a bar in the battery status...

 

[JimmyM]

Actually I agree 120% with what @agedhorse stated.

I might agree, too, if I hadn't done it a million times in big venues with great results that sounded just like I wanted.

 

[seamonkey]

I have amplitube. It’s $hit compared to real tube amps.

It's free to try
Sell it if you bought it
or
IK Multimedia. Musicians First.

 

[agedhorse]

I might agree, too, if I hadn't done it a million times in big venues with great results that sounded just like I wanted.

I didn't say that it can't work, jus that it is often (at least as often done the way I said with equally good (or better) results.

If I hadn't seen it done in my world, I wouldn't have said it.

Should I post a few input lists from national acts that do it the way I suggested might work as well?

 

[bucephylus]

You cats need to start a different thread either here or over in the Live Sound forum.

Migration to different digital FOH feeds is a whole different, if timely and important, topic; but, not much related to the Class D vs Tube discussion.

So many things are changing ATM. There is a lot to digest. While I sympathize with the attachment to older technologies, I think, as a player, one has to decide whether to learn what is necessary for the gig, or just check out on the changes. Hating on each other based on changes none of us has any control over just seems like misdirected anger. I am REALLY struggling with the whole IEM thing. But, complaining about it or hating on folks who are using it doesn’t change the fact that it is becoming part of doing gigs.

Anyhow, carry on.

 

[Cuzzie]

It’s of funny, and I don’t doubt anyone’s major experiences here, which are way better than mine.

Seen 2 gigs in the past year which stick with me, both small venues, but a good PA.

Glenn Hughes - all tube orange amp, Nash bitsa jazz bass awesome sound, beautiful bass sounds all around.

Kings X - Tech21 dUg amp, huge bass sound and very good.

Both fantastic sounds, i’d Be hard pushed to pick a fave

 

[bassboysam]

Sounds like my reaction when I first discovered the Mesa Subway D800! But then again I've never played through a tube amp. I just can't imagine the hassle of moving it around and constantly changing tubes. But if you can try a Mesa Subway, it's about as tubey as you're going to get from a small class D amp.

you've never played a tube amp yet you can say the mesa is as tubey as you can get...


also you don't have to constantly change tubes. for most people once a decade is sufficient.

 

[JimmyM]

I didn't say that it can't work, jus that it is often (at least as often done the way I said with equally good (or better) results.

If I hadn't seen it done in my world, I wouldn't have said it.

Should I post a few input lists from national acts that do it the way I suggested might work as well?

No, I'm bummed enough about being forced to DI when I'd rather be micing Anyway, the writing is on the wall...the days of the musicians' wants and needs being considered important are coming to a close. It's long been over for bassists, and now it's hitting the entire band. Not all of us want to stick our drummers in a plexiglas cage and force them to use sample triggers, not all of us want silent stages and DI's for everything, not all of us want to hear ourselves and our bandmates out of glorified MP3 players...but the sound techs have spoken and they're winning. It won't be long before we're all forced into it, so those of us who think that sucks all the life out of the mix (as well as our enjoyment of playing music) better appreciate amps and mics while we can, because our days of enjoying it are numbered.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Yeah but it's not constant changing out. Not even close to constant, really, unless you insist on turning it up to the point of distortion.


I'll bet the repair bill is pretty close.

BTW, my Heritage SVT: 4 years on the stock tubes. V4B: Same. PF-50T: 2 years. 64 B-15N: 9 on the power tubes, 3 on the pre tubes.

Pay close attention to the bias.....dont exceed 70% dissipation and i would go with 60 to 65% dissipation.....bias as COOL as you like the sound which is usually not less than 50% total dissipation.

FWIW, NOS (meaning old production) power tubes will last much longer than modern production.

Preamp tubes are easy to swap and usually will last a LONG time unless they go noisy etc.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

Going to have to disagree with this statement.

Tube life depends on many factors, many of which cone down to choices made in circuit design.

I have seen amps with several thousand hours in power tubes and they tested/sounded just fine. It's not uncommon for a set of power tubes to last 5-10 years, longer in some circuits and shorter in other circuits.

Truth

 

[agedhorse]

FWIW, NOS (meaning old production) power tubes will last much longer than modern production.

I don't think this is often the case. There are many current production tubes that are every bit as reliable and long lasting as high quality old stock manufacture.

Where there may be problems is with designs that use a tube in off sheet ways, combined with changes in, or unavailability of spec. extensions that were sometimes available (either by tube design differences or secondary screening) in old models.

At the companies I have worked for in the past, we have generally had excellent results with new stock tubes, but we select vendors, tube designs and screening very carefully.

 

[JimmyM]

Pay close attention to the bias.....dont exceed 70% dissipation and i would go with 60 to 65% dissipation.....bias as COOL as you like the sound which is usually not less than 50% total dissipation.

I don't know what my stuff is biased at, but I'm getting pretty good tube life.

FWIW, NOS (meaning old production) power tubes will last much longer than modern production.

It used to be that way...I'm finding it's not always the case anymore, though. I bought a little ART mic preamp for home stuff years ago, use it fairly regularly still, and the cheapo Sovtek in it has lasted 17 years.

Preamp tubes are easy to swap and usually will last a LONG time unless they go noisy etc.

That much is true, especially if they don't have a prominent role in the output of the amp. Been my experience that V1 is usually the first to go in any preamp with more than one tube.

 

[agedhorse]

No, I'm bummed enough about being forced to DI when I'd rather be micing Anyway, the writing is on the wall...the days of the musicians' wants and needs being considered important are coming to a close. It's long been over for bassists, and now it's hitting the entire band. Not all of us want to stick our drummers in a plexiglas cage and force them to use sample triggers, not all of us want silent stages and DI's for everything, not all of us want to hear ourselves and our bandmates out of glorified MP3 players...but the sound techs have spoken and they're winning. It won't be long before we're all forced into it, so those of us who think that sucks all the life out of the mix (as well as our enjoyment of playing music) better appreciate amps and mics while we can, because our days of enjoying it are numbered.

So in the interest of accuracy, I went back through about 3 years of riders to verify what the BAND wanted and in about 30% the bass called for DI only, and in about 70% the bass called for DI + mic. There was only one single example of the bass input being a mic only, no DI (Wynton Marsalis' Jazz at Lincoln Center tour, obviously an upright) yet there were some somewhat surprising acts that were DI only (like Dwezel Zappa's Zappa Plays Zappa, Ziggy Marley, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Kansas).

So I stand by my comments that the DI is typically relied on more often and more usually than mic only.

This doesn't mean that you are wrong for preferring a mic, but this also means that other bass players (these are higher level bands with big budget tours, so it's not a money thing) simply prefer a DI or DI + mic for their needs.

 

[Drgonzonm]

I don't know what my stuff is biased at, but I'm getting pretty good tube life.


It used to be that way...I'm finding it's not always the case anymore, though. I bought a little ART mic preamp for home stuff years ago, use it fairly regularly still, and the cheapo Sovtek in it has lasted 17 years.


That much is true, especially if they don't have a prominent role in the output of the amp. Been my experience that V1 is usually the first to go in any preamp with more than one tube.

That Soviet tube was probably designed for either Mig or missle use
El34 tubes tend to have shorter lives in some Marshall amps. Jim Marshall Was known to compromise tube life for quality of sound.

 

[JimmyM]

So in the interest of accuracy, I went back through about 3 years of riders to verify what the BAND wanted and in about 30% the bass called for DI only, and in about 70% the bass called for DI + mic. There was only one single example of the bass input being a mic only, no DI (Wynton Marsalis' Jazz at Lincoln Center tour, obviously an upright) yet there were some somewhat surprising acts that were DI only (like Dwezel Zappa's Zappa Plays Zappa, Ziggy Marley, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band and Kansas).

So I stand by my comments that the DI is typically relied on more often and more usually than mic only.

This doesn't mean that you are wrong for preferring a mic, but this also means that other bass players (these are higher level bands with big budget tours, so it's not a money thing) simply prefer a DI or DI + mic for their needs.

Brainwashing.



But seriously, I've already made my peace with the idea that I'm almost always going to get just one line and I'm going to have to DI. I just think it's a drag I had to throw over a grand toward getting my DI line acceptable, but at least it's got a sound I can deal with.

 

[agedhorse]

Brainwashing.



But seriously, I've already made my peace with the idea that I'm almost always going to get just one line and I'm going to have to DI. I just think it's a drag I had to throw over a grand toward getting my DI line acceptable, but at least it's got a sound I can deal with.

Why don't you get 2 lines (mic & DI) and let the sound guy use both tools to duplicate the tone of your rig in the house?

 

[Coolhandjjl]

That Soviet tube was probably designed for either Mig or missle use
El34 tubes tend to have shorter lives in some Marshall amps. Jim Marshall Was known to compromise tube life for quality of sound.

My understanding is that the tubes used in Soviet MIGs or other things were the Foxbat tubes, and hi-fi builders use have been using those. Sovtek is a brand owned by New Sensor Corp, and they own pretty much all the tube making facilities and brands for audio amplification tubes

 

[JimmyM]

Why don't you get 2 lines (mic & DI) and let the sound guy use both tools to duplicate the tone of your rig in the house?

A lot of gigs, we just don't have the board real estate. When I can, I do, but we're a large band with 5 singers and 3 horns. And we do a lot of gigs with sound techs with 16 ch boards, and we do a lot of gigs with multiple bands. Like in December, there are three bands on this one show and some of the acts that we play with have their own instruments to deal with. So it's easier said than done a lot of the time, and I just run with a DI because arguing about the mic got to be a distraction on too many gigs.

 

[BadExample]

This doesn't mean that you are wrong for preferring a mic, but this also means that other bass players (these are higher level bands with big budget tours, so it's not a money thing) simply prefer a DI or DI + mic for their needs.

Wait, what? Jimmy is not at the highest level? I'm shattered. Shattered like an aluminum cone