Solid state/class d vs tube amps

[Al Kraft]

So because of LED's, we should throw out perfectly good tubes after a year? Yeah, no. Your anti-tube agenda is clear, apparent, and has been for a long time. I'll take the word of people who have actual experience with tube amps instead.

With respect Jimmy, I didn't read that into his post, but as usual am probably missing something. I took it to mean that for most folks even when there was a fair amount of normal degradation over time, most people still think things sound fine. To me this would argue that useful tube life may be even longer than the specs would lead one to believe.

 

[agedhorse]

So because of LED's, we should throw out perfectly good tubes after a year? Yeah, no. Your anti-tube agenda is clear, apparent, and has been for a long time. I'll take the word of people who have actual experience with tube amps instead.

I see an awful lot of perfectly good tubes tossed in the name of "necessary maintenance" and chasing of "ultimate tone".

Same applies to caps and resistors

 

[JimmyM]

With respect Jimmy, I didn't read that into his post, but as usual am probably missing something. I took it to mean that for most folks even when there was a fair amount of normal degradation over time, most people still think things sound fine. To me this would argue that useful tube life may be even longer than the specs would lead one to believe.

Respect, Al. But Seamonkey has been posting anti-tube posts for a very long time trying to convert everyone over to micros and modeling, claiming that they sound identical. So even if that was his intention for that particular post, there is a clear agenda here. I don't get what's in it for him, either, unless he's not disclosing a relationship with a manufacturer. But he doesn't seem to have one...only a glaring anti-tube agenda. I have an agenda, too...I want Ampeg to keep making SVT's so it remains easy for me to get them supplied at backlined gigs

 

[DJ Bebop]

I like tubes, I like micros to the point that I hadn't played my tubes (B-!5n) in a long while.
I was thinking of selling it (wife on the too much music stuff kick) anyway I was thinking maybe it was time as I don't gig it or play it. I was ready to go until I turned it on to see if it worked. Now I wonder what the deal was with the micros. I guess I'll find something else to get rid of...

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I see an awful lot of perfectly good tubes tossed in the name of "necessary maintenance" and chasing of "ultimate tone".

Same applies to caps and resistors

I recently acquired the Orange VT-1000 tube tester. Not cheap and a little limited (doesn't test some tubes including rectifiers) but man, it paid for itself over and over..
Like you say, perfectly good tubes just getting tossed. Had a guy with an old HiFi stereo amp that wanted the stock MO KT88s (quartet) replaced! Crazy. They tested fine on the tester..

 

[Al Kraft]

Respect, Al. But Seamonkey has been posting anti-tube posts for a very long time trying to convert everyone over to micros and modeling, claiming that they sound identical. So even if that was his intention for that particular post, there is a clear agenda here. I don't get what's in it for him, either, unless he's not disclosing a relationship with a manufacturer. But he doesn't seem to have one...only a glaring anti-tube agenda. I have an agenda, too...I want Ampeg to keep making SVT's so it remains easy for me to get them supplied at backlined gigs

I'm happy with my SS and hybrid rigs, but quite frankly until the SS community stops claiming that they sound/feel exactly the same as tubes it will be hard for anyone to assume the "gold standard" has changed. It reminds me of being on the shooting range years ago and hearing arguments about the stopping power of this or that caliber being just as good as a 45...all that did was reinforce that a 45 was the benchmark. Other calibers certainly had pros and cons that allowed a design to better suit certain applications, but it wasn't going to feel or hit like a 45.

There is a lot to like about the harmonic richness, warmth, and feel that a well designed tube amp delivers. There's also a lot to like about how close many well designed and expertly voiced solid state (or hybrid) products can come to that benchmark, especially in a busy live mix. And of course, a poor amp design with or without tubes is just a "component agnostic" poor design!

 

[Cuzzie]

It baffles me the arguments.

There are some greats SS amps out there, there are some great Tube amps out there and there will be dogs on either side.

They are both Cola, but one is Coca and one is Pepsi and they taste different but both taste good.

Surely no one needs convincing, we can all make our own minds up, decide what suits our sound, space and portability requirements and that’s about it.

And they are both good for metal....

 

[seamonkey]

I recently acquired the Orange VT-1000 tube tester. Not cheap and a little limited (doesn't test some tubes including rectifiers) but man, it paid for itself over and over..
Like you say, perfectly good tubes just getting tossed. Had a guy with an old HiFi stereo amp that wanted the stock MO KT88s (quartet) replaced! Crazy. They tested fine on the tester..

These things are great. Easy to use and help sort out the hype. They have the simple red/yellow/green but they also display a "Valve Matching Number". The KT88s may have tested fine, but were they the same numbers as they were originally? Maybe just a little testing, ranking, and matching is what people want from time to time?

Mesa has some youtube vids on their tester and how they go about matching tubes. They came up with a reliable enough process that they're able to give the longest warranty on tubes in the industry.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Man up and get a real tube tester.
Superior Instruments Model 450 Tube Tester | Pixel N' Sound

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

These things are great. Easy to use and help sort out the hype. They have the simple red/yellow/green but they also display a "Valve Matching Number". The KT88s may have tested fine, but were they the same numbers as they were originally? Maybe just a little testing, ranking, and matching is what people want from time to time?

Mesa has some youtube vids on their tester and how they go about matching tubes. They came up with a reliable enough process that they're able to give the longest warranty on tubes in the industry.

3 came in at 8, 1 at 7. Considering the scale goes to 15, I felt confident those tubes were good for awhile.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Man up and get a real tube tester.
Superior Instruments Model 450 Tube Tester | Pixel N' Sound

I have a similar one. They are really only good for emission testing.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I have a similar one. They are really only good for emission testing.

What else do you want to test?

 

[agedhorse]

How do they work in the circuit?

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

What else do you want to test?

MU and Gm.

 

[JimmyM]

What else do you want to test?

How do they work in the circuit?

Word. How they work in the circuit. I've got a set of old GE 6L6GC's in my B-15 that tested bad on my tech's tester. He replaced them with JJ's and gave me the old ones back in the JJ boxes. I put the GE's back in it and they've worked flawlessly for years and sounded just as good as the JJ's.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

MU and Gm.

Oh! Hardcore eh?

Yeah it just seems that $400 - $500 for the Orange was excessive and didn’t tell you much compared to some of the more traditional style testers.
I could be wrong though.

What type/brand of tester do you like for Mu and Gm parameters?

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Word. How they work in the circuit. I've got a set of old GE 6L6GC's in my B-15 that tested bad on my tech's tester. He replaced them with JJ's and gave me the old ones back in the JJ boxes. I put the GE's back in it and they've worked flawlessly for years and sounded just as good as the JJ's.

Then you’ve got a built in tester aka your amp?
Or a second amp of the same type would work to rule out if the problem was not a tube.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I've had an "Old School" EICO 628 Tube Tester for decades. Works great and can do most everything. And I've had Tube bass amps, pre-amps, power amps, and even some high quality stereo audio gear. (In fact the stereo still is using a Conrad Johnson Preamp and two highly modified Dynaco MK III power amps.)

So testing tubes and being able to do your own matched sets was important for me. And if you are going to want to use Tube Gear, would make a good personal investment. And I can promise you, Tubes don't last forever, and there is a noticeable difference in good matched tubes, verses old tubes that are starting to loose their capability. Especially in High Quality Stereo gear.

 

[JimmyM]

Then you’ve got a built in tester aka your amp?
Or a second amp of the same type would work to rule out if the problem was not a tube.

Either way, I'm perfectly happy not to spend another $70 on 6L6gc's if I don't have to I do compare them to known good tubes in the circuit occasionally, though, so there's a little bit of science to my test methods.

 

[JimmyM]

Was the amp the cause of the fire?

Soee man...missed this before. Nope, it was unplugged. It was an electrical fire caused by some piece of bar equipment they had.