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Solid state/class d vs tube amps

#941
logdrum said:
Forget distortion, just for clean and the quality of low end, mid and the air. Tubes no contest. In a loud band setting, yeah maybe most will not hear the difference.
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For me, the difference is very apparent. With tube amps and tube DIs that sound like tube amps, the notes have more weight to them, and it's especially noticeable on higher notes. With SS, the higher nuts tend to lose bottom end energy, but not with the tube stuff. Now maybe the audience can't put that into words why it's happening, and it's true that I've done SS DI many times over the years and nobody has ever walked out because of it. But if I hear the difference, it's there and it's making a positive effect toward the music sounding better to the audience. People are fond of saying that you won't notice it in of mix in a crowded bar on Saturday night, but I think that's the times where the differences really get exposed.
 
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#942
JimmyM said:
For me, the difference is very apparent. With tube amps and tube DIs that sound like tube amps, the notes have more weight to them, and it's especially noticeable on higher notes. With SS, the higher nuts tend to lose bottom end energy, but not with the tube stuff. Now maybe the audience can't put that into words why it's happening, and it's true that I've done SS DI many times over the years and nobody has ever walked out because of it. But if I hear the difference, it's there and it's making a positive effect toward the music sounding better to the audience. People are fond of saying that you won't notice it in of mix in a crowded bar on Saturday night, but I think that's the times where the differences really get exposed.
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You are preaching to the choir my man. I agree with you, but I was just pre-empting the "Audience won't know the difference" argument. I hear the difference as a player or audience. And yeah tube pre-amps and solid state power amp, is not as good as a all tube however expensive or exotic the pre-amp. I listen music in an all tube system. Even in SoCal where I stay partly in a small place for work part of the month, even my bluetooth interface from my phone is tube - albeit affordable Chinese made. That's how much. I am invested in tubes
 
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#943
JimmyM said:
For me, the difference is very apparent. With tube amps and tube DIs that sound like tube amps, the notes have more weight to them, and it's especially noticeable on higher notes. With SS, the higher nuts tend to lose bottom end energy, but not with the tube stuff. Now maybe the audience can't put that into words why it's happening, and it's true that I've done SS DI many times over the years and nobody has ever walked out because of it. But if I hear the difference, it's there and it's making a positive effect toward the music sounding better to the audience. People are fond of saying that you won't notice it in of mix in a crowded bar on Saturday night, but I think that's the times where the differences really get exposed.
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If I may, what kind of music do you play?
 
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#945
JimmyM said:
For me, the difference is very apparent. With tube amps and tube DIs that sound like tube amps, the notes have more weight to them, and it's especially noticeable on higher notes. With SS, the higher nuts tend to lose bottom end energy, but not with the tube stuff. Now maybe the audience can't put that into words why it's happening, and it's true that I've done SS DI many times over the years and nobody has ever walked out because of it. But if I hear the difference, it's there and it's making a positive effect toward the music sounding better to the audience. People are fond of saying that you won't notice it in of mix in a crowded bar on Saturday night, but I think that's the times where the differences really get exposed.
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Much like listening to records in some respects. Yes, CD's (dating myself) or flac files sound clean and clear but, there is something about a diamond stylist banging around a vinyl groove that be a joy as well (Plus if it's also going through a tube amp) :)
 
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#949
DJ Bebop said:
Much like listening to records in some respects. Yes, CD's (dating myself) or flac files sound clean and clear but, there is something about a diamond stylist banging around a vinyl groove that be a joy as well (Plus if it's also going through a tube amp) :)
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And this is where you and I part ways :D I so don't miss hearing clicks and pops and surface noise! I do love the tube stereo systems, but I did not miss LP's when CD's killed that market. I am, however, glad that there is a market for buying music that computers can't bootleg again. The resurgence of records helps put food on the table for musicians, so I can't protest too loudly.
 
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#951
I don't miss the stylus distorting in high modulation grooves, the limited dynamic range along with a higher noise floor. Then there's the degradation of the surface due to wear... bonus!
 
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#952
JimmyM said:
And this is where you and I part ways :D I so don't miss hearing clicks and pops and surface noise! I do love the tube stereo systems, but I did not miss LP's when CD's killed that market. I am, however, glad that there is a market for buying music that computers can't bootleg again. The resurgence of records helps put food on the table for musicians, so I can't protest too loudly.
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I dig, I sold my over 2000 albums a few years ago. Still, have my Marantz 8B tube amp though.
 
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#954
JimmyM said:
And this is where you and I part ways :D I so don't miss hearing clicks and pops and surface noise! I do love the tube stereo systems, but I did not miss LP's when CD's killed that market. I am, however, glad that there is a market for buying music that computers can't bootleg again. The resurgence of records helps put food on the table for musicians, so I can't protest too loudly.
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I guess that you wouldn't want this plugin then. :laugh:

It allows you to add clicks, pops, noise, phase distortion, wow, flutter, and more.


Abbey Road Vinyl Plugin | Waves

Check out the videos. I find it interesting to use.




abbey road vinyl.jpg
 
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#955
DJ Bebop said:
But that's the "warmth" that folks are missing when they think CD's are too sterile and don't sound as good as LP's :D
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WAY too many CDs are brickwalled...the 'Loudness Wars' suck....CLEAN vinyl is a must...no cleaner back in the day will do what a simple Spin Clean or Record Vac system will do today.....Stylus dirty? Tear off a piece of a Magic Eraser and use it gently dry....100,000's (more like millions) of us vinyl lovers have been doing this for 15+ years now.

Most records are filthy.....the biggest culprit is actually 'dust mites', then all of the other things in the environment....get em cleaned properly.

I play CDs and vinyl there is good and not so good in both formats imo.
 
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#956
nomaj said:
I've never really experienced "tube goodness" with a hybrid bass head (in the sense that it sounded like an all tube head) although I've liked the sound. My experience is that a hybrid bass amp sounds like a smooth (in the good sense) first rate SS amp, but I've only used a tube pre/bipolar output Class AB design, not tube pre/Class D output ones, although I can't imagine a Class D output sounding better/tubier than an AB, although the power to weight benefit with Class D is such a plus.

The only really tubey sound I've experienced from a hybrid amp was from when I plugged into a friend's old MusicMan HD-130 head, (which was the other sort of hybrid, not really seen in bass amps, that I know of - it had a SS pre/EL-34 tube output). Now, THAT amp had "tube goodness," especially when cranked and when using a pick.
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I can speak to this. I use tube-preamp stages and class-D power amp stages, theoretically your 'hybrid' amp setup. I also own 'old school' early 90's hybrid (an old MOSFET Hartke 3500) w/parallel 12AX7 and 'solid' state' preamps. I've owned & gigged a Mesa 400+ (16 tube innit at last count) as well as a number of 'classic' tube amps including Fender Twin, Fender VibroChamp, Kalamazoo Bass 30...and even an A/B micro (LMII).

Absolutely nothing in the amp design classification portends it to be more or less tubey than anything else. It has everything to do with implementation. My most current iteration of stage rig fools nearly everyone into believing it's a fully tube-tone monster. Not that I'll dissuade them, but I very much appreciate what a well implemented class-D power-stage brings to the table along with a really nice tube preamp section. At the same time, I found one of the fully tube amps 400+ to be the least warm/smooth of all the amps I've played on stage.
 
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#959
Old Garage-Bander said:
I’d like to see how quickly this conversation would turn if someone were to build a tube, Class D, output stage.
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Markbass and Peavey have both made tube amps with SMPS instead of power transformers, if that counts. Pretty sure I played through the Peavey that had it, though I reserve the right to be wrong about that. I enjoyed it in my 10 minute run on it at the store.
 
#960
JimmyM said:
Markbass and Peavey have both made tube amps with SMPS instead of power transformers, if that counts. Pretty sure I played through the Peavey that had it, though I reserve the right to be wrong about that. I enjoyed it in my 10 minute run on it at the store.
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Were those tubes in the pre-amp or output, if you recall?
The power supply doesn’t speak to amplifier class.
I’m talking about chucking the mosfets for glow bottles.
 

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