And it's your opinion that the Mesa is the "name check" for clean and loud?
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious...
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solid state vs tube
- Thread starter jay43
- Start date
And it's your opinion that the Mesa is the "name check" for clean and loud?
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious...
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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- Endorsing artist: Dingwall Guitars
And it's your opinion that the Mesa is the "name check" for clean and loud?
I'm really not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious...
For years here at TB when people debated tube and solid state someone, and usually multiple someones would come on and say 'noooooooo...you can get clean out of a Mesa 400+' thus the 'name check' comment. There are lots of threads from guys who couldn't get the breakup out of the Mesa they wanted.
I personally didn't feel like it did either all that great. Not clean enough to be clean, not dirty enough to be all the snarly, not that I wanted snarly. If I wanted that I'd get another SVT. Minus that the SVT has way more mid/low mid than the 400+ ever could have, given the Mesa has a Bassman tone stack.
I'm on the same page as you about the Mesa, and I feel similarly about the Aggie DB359, except I'm of the opinion that the Aggie is much less tonally colored than the 400+; pretty freekin' clean but like the Mesa also lacking the BIG growl.
I think the SVT gets more dynamic as well as nastier than either by a long shot. A nice balance, wilder and woollier than the Mesa or Aggie, not as wide open clean and dynamic (or as finicky) as some.
Which probably is one of the primary reasons why SVT rigs are so dominant on "big league" stages.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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Add to all that, the 400+ tone setup is very finicky...I would spend most of my time in practice or on a gig tweaking knobs because it was *just* a little off from what I wanted and I never could get it exactly dead on. Always. It was always 95% of the way there and you could never get the 5% in one direction or another. I also ended up hating the onboard DI.
The Buster is generally considered Mesa's cleanest tube amp. I'm a 400+ player, and there are definitely times I wish it had a little more clean headroom (and I did the phase inverter preamp tube swap). I do find that having quality power is important for keeping the 400+ running in the clean. Less than optimal voltage situations really cause the amp to breakup a lot sooner.
As far as the hybrid debate, I actually prefer the opposite of most hybrids. I like a solid-state frontend and a tube power section. I'm not a big fan of a clipped frontend, but I like a little hair on the output. I really dig the sound of my Bmax through my Mesa's FX loop. If they weren't so rare nowadays, I'd like to find an Aguilar DB728 and pair it with a solid-state preamp.
When it comes to the tubes vs. solid-state debate, I'm squarely in the middle. There are things I love about tube amps that just haven't been present with the solid-state gear I've used (e.g., low-end warmth, the three-dimensional and physical presence of the notes), and there are things I love about solid-state gear that just haven't been present in the tube gear I've used (e.g., quickness, extreme clarity, upper-harmonic presence).
It's great that as bass players we have the choice between tubes and transistors, which both sound great. And you can get a great sounding solid-state amp at a relatively affordable price. For guitarists, to get a good sounding solid-state amp (e.g., Axe-Fx), you have to pay about as much as a professional-level tube amp.
As far as the hybrid debate, I actually prefer the opposite of most hybrids. I like a solid-state frontend and a tube power section. I'm not a big fan of a clipped frontend, but I like a little hair on the output. I really dig the sound of my Bmax through my Mesa's FX loop. If they weren't so rare nowadays, I'd like to find an Aguilar DB728 and pair it with a solid-state preamp.
When it comes to the tubes vs. solid-state debate, I'm squarely in the middle. There are things I love about tube amps that just haven't been present with the solid-state gear I've used (e.g., low-end warmth, the three-dimensional and physical presence of the notes), and there are things I love about solid-state gear that just haven't been present in the tube gear I've used (e.g., quickness, extreme clarity, upper-harmonic presence).
It's great that as bass players we have the choice between tubes and transistors, which both sound great. And you can get a great sounding solid-state amp at a relatively affordable price. For guitarists, to get a good sounding solid-state amp (e.g., Axe-Fx), you have to pay about as much as a professional-level tube amp.
BurningSkies
CRAZY BALDHEAD
- Feb 20, 2005
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I agree, and any time we were doing a generator-based gig (some festivals, outdoor shows, etc), it was instantly obvious that there were power problems.
On the tube/solid state combination, you should try to find a high voltage tube preamp...the ones that come to mind are the Demeter, Kern and probably the Jules Monique. Combine those with a LARGE class-d power amp, and you get exactly what you're describing.
I'll tell you...my band's guitarist recently got one of those cheapy Vox Valvestate amps, and it sounds darn good. And I've been using a Crate Power Block into one of my SVT210av cabs for guitar and it also sounds darn good. So it's getting better for them as well.
The generator thing can be very hit or miss. A few years ago, we did a gig at a small carnival with generator power. My guitarist actually had to unplug all of his gear from his power conditioner and plug it into a powerstrip, because the voltage was so low, his power conditioner instantly went into protect mode and wouldn't let him turn anything on in his rack. I ended up smoking a powerstrip during soundcheck, which was scary. He used his Mesa 2:90 power amp and I played my 400+. Our tone was a bit flubby for our tastes that day (but we still got the job done with respectable tone).
This past summer, a club we play at decided to put us on a float for the county fair. My guitarist racked up his Lee Jackson power amp and I brought my Carvin MB12 combo. The voltage from the generator pretty much held constant at 110 the entire time, even with a PA running vocals, guitar, bass, and drums.
There's lot of Ampeg-this and Mesa-that going on...they're both pretty respectable amps so people are really fighting over nothing. The only way to tell what you like better is to try one. Bass Get-Togethers through Talkbass and store displays are usually good places to start.
But I'd like to throw in some logic that may or may not have been covered already...when it comes to the "Tube Vs. Solid State" argument, it's not as cut-and-dried as it used to be. Solid state technology has come a long, long way since the argument started back in the 80's. One amp that comes to mind is my GK 700RBII. It does clean and dirty exceptionally well. I'd venture to say better at both than anything else I've owned, and it's much cheaper and lighter as well.
I will throw in that given the funds were available, I'd spring for a Matamp or Orange all-tube amp, or maybe even a Sunn 2000S. There's just something about those that pull at my inner self.
But I'd like to throw in some logic that may or may not have been covered already...when it comes to the "Tube Vs. Solid State" argument, it's not as cut-and-dried as it used to be. Solid state technology has come a long, long way since the argument started back in the 80's. One amp that comes to mind is my GK 700RBII. It does clean and dirty exceptionally well. I'd venture to say better at both than anything else I've owned, and it's much cheaper and lighter as well.
I will throw in that given the funds were available, I'd spring for a Matamp or Orange all-tube amp, or maybe even a Sunn 2000S. There's just something about those that pull at my inner self.
I don't like the tone out of most SS only amps but I do have a Little Mark II for a practice rig and the tone is respectable. But it's not near as nice as my Ampeg SVT6 Pro. It has a 6 tube preamp followed with 1100W of MOSFET power (@ 4 ohms). I do run this through 2 Mesa 410's. I personally think the sound is awesome. Not saying others aren't nice too but I'm very happy with what I've got.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Let me make a suggestion... if the power's damaging to your power strip and it's low voltage cutout activates (clearly not just a power strip), this probably means that it's not a good idea to plug a bunch of expensive gear into the same source eh?
The fact that you got through the gig means that you were lucky that day, how would you have felt if all your gear failed? Do you know that you did no long term damage to your gear?
Hey Jimmy, you finally got an Ampeg deal? It's about time; did you threaten them that you would stop pimping "all things Ampeg" unless they did?
Now I get why suddenly for some reason the current production pieces got better in your opinion;
I’m sure Loud wants their compensated pimps pushing the new stuff rather than the vintage stuff…
Just jacking you, bro! I hope you got a sweet deal; Lord knows you earned it!!
EDIT: This post is intended as a joke. The sort of joshing I would deliver to Jimmy if we were just hanging out enjoying a beverage alone rather than on a public forum.
But it was on a public forum, and I can see how it might seem like a malicious assault on JimmyM’s integrity.
It was not meant as such an assault, and I in no way believe that Jimmy would compromise his personal integrity in exchange for compensation.
I would have simply deleted this post; however it has already been quoted in multiple other posts.
So, mea culpa to Jimmy and anyone else who may have though that my comments were intended as anything other than a good natured ribbing.
Over the years I found that tube amps for both guitar and bass are more finicky and less reliable. Yeah, they sound good, but the lack of reliability (and weight) got to be bigger factors to me. I get a good tone from my solid state amps, but my observation is that once the volume gets above a certain level (when you need to wear ear protection) "tone" does not mean the same thing.
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Voltage low, current goes up to do the same work, higher current=more heat. Lets play and call the equipent a POS when it fails!
Hey Jimmy, you finally got an Ampeg deal? It's about time; did you threaten them that you would stop pimping "all things Ampeg" unless they did?
Now I get why suddenly for some reason the current production pieces got better in your opinion;
Im sure Loud wants their compensated pimps pushing the new stuff rather than the vintage stuff
Just jacking you, bro! I hope you got a sweet deal; Lord knows you earned it!!
Fincky - sometimes, heavy - almost always, but unreliable?
That's and old wive's tale. The tubes themselves are fragile, but quality tubes aren't really unreliable.
Unless of course you had some hack working on your tube amps, or were prone to dropping them.
