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Some amp head advice badly needed

lordradish

lordradish

Supporting Member
Jul 20, 2006
4,522
8,769
Vermont
#1
Hi, folks...

Before I begin, I should note, I have spent a few hours on TB researching this... it's kind of overwhelming, so I figured I should perhaps post my particular needs and situation. I know that A LOT of things have changed in technology since I bought my amp head.

Well, after almost 20 years, I think it's time to get rid of my old SWR SM-400s (one of the ones from when Rabe still owned it and they were not assembly-line). My needs have changed, not to mention that I know a lot more about my tone than I did as a young player.

Right now, I'm running either through my Eden 210, my Carvin 15, or both, depending on the size of the gig. They're both 8 ohm cabinets, and the speakers are all still good. I eventually plan on going with some lighter cabs, but for now, they're fine. My axes are a 1990 Wal MkII five string fretted, and a custom Stambaugh Designs fretless 5.

I've never been thrilled with the tone of this amp, I think there are two things, that stand out. It's not a very clean-sounding amp, and I think it just doesn't have the headroom, as it doesn't take much to get some distortion. I'm primarily a funk/jazz player, so I don't really like having an overdriven tone, and I'm not really into that when I play rock, either, it's just not my thing. I have replaced the tube every few years, as a maintenance procedure.

I'm thinking I want to go with something in the 800-900 watt range. Here are a few that, based on my budget, I've been considering...

GK MB800 or Fusion 800
Markbass Little Mark or Little Mark Tube 800
TC BH 800
Genz Benz Streamline 900
Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0

First off, what I like about these models - price, simplicity of controls, and lightweight. The tones of my basses often sound so good with flat eq, I don't need a fancy eq.

So my first question is the tube question... considering I don't ever use an overdriven sound, are the tubes worth the extra cost? I tend to prefer a clean, modern tone (not too crisp, but punchy), and the eq's on both of the basses I have allow me to get a vintage tone, without much work. What I do like about the tube warmth, is that it can take care of some of the sterility that SS amps can have. Granted, the extra cost for the tubes on these particular amps, isn't too steep, so it's not that much of an issue. Is it worth having?

Second, I'm having a hard time finding some comprehensive reviews on the TC BH 800... most of the comments I've found on TB seem to be a bit skeptical, in some ways. I do like the simplicity of the design, as well as the built-in Tone Print function... I can use some of those effects for ones I don't have pedals for. Anyone have any thoughts on these?

Also, any other recommendations of some other similar amps that I may have overlooked?

Thanks in advance for the advice, if there's more info I could give that would help, please let me know.
 
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#3
Your SWR shouldn't get dirty or distorted. Good cleaning, maybe a preamp tube, or at worst a cap job or tracking down a loose solder joint probably fix that.


Then there's this about your amps baked-in voicing, and a way to "un-do" it. Either free or extremely cheap.

It also doesn't have any, or very little, filtering of the lowend. You can drop the bass shelving knob and use a low sweep control to "sort of make one". That and its inherent lowmid notch out are what causes the "underpowered" feeling of it.



http://www.talkbass.com/threads/swr-aural-enhancer-bypass.643201/
 
#4
will33 said:
Clean and punchy says the GK.

Might like Genz Shuttle over the Streamliner for that. They're out of business though their engineer ( "agedhorse" here) still does support for used products.

Tubes aren't just for overdrive.
Click to expand...

Wait, so GB is out of business? Their website is still up, and they seem to still be available, everywhere.
 
#6
In agreement with will33 here.
As far as the TC, absolutely no guarantee you will get more than 236 watts with their compression routine and that kind of massive signal processing doesn't sound like what you are after?
The LM800 might work for you the LM tube 800 from personal experience is not worth the time and no user tube change is possible.
 
#10
lordradish said:
I think


Hmm, interesting. I think I'm just ready for a different sound, and I also would like something lighter and newer, with more headroom. Thanks.
Click to expand...
That's all good. Just some Info on your current amp there you may or may not have known.


Yes, Fender closed down Genz. Owner and design engineer have left the building. Andy (agedhorse) is with Mesa now. I assume Genzler is on a tropical island somewhere enjoying a drink with a little umbrella in it. :D


I really don't know what he's doing. :)
 
#11
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#12
I had that SM400S amp - it really shouldn't be distorting. At the same time, I could never dial mine in right at gigs. Always playing with the para-mid controls throughout the gig - 3 hours of fiddling?! I wanted to like it but never got "my tone" from it.

Now everyone's tone is different. You have some nice basses - probably time you're as happy with your amp and cabs.

I'd honestly look at them together and budget for total replacement. The way the amp works with the cabs to define your tone can't be understated. (ie, take any of those amps you listed and play it through an 8x10, and your tone would be greatly different from your 2x10/1x15 cabs.)

Just try stuff out in person if you can. I went on a tone hunt years ago and stuff I thought I would love based on reviews, I wasn't very happy with. I ended up loving the tone of a BBE BMax preamp I picked up here for cheap. (and bought a power amp, rack tuner and rack to round out the whole setup)

You said new, but look at the used section here too - bunch of good stuff at a solid discount. For stuff you can't try out in person, you can buy used and resell for minimal loss if you don't like it.

But first thing first - check out your SWR to make sure its running right and you have the gain controls set up right. It shouldn't distort. Also, a single tube in the preamp doesn't mean the amp is designed for rock - it just minimally warms up the tone a bit, rounds off the edges.
 
#13
Something else I'm wondering... I generally run the SM400S as stereo in the two cab
ashtray said:
I had that SM400S amp - it really shouldn't be distorting. At the same time, I could never dial mine in right at gigs. Always playing with the para-mid controls throughout the gig - 3 hours of fiddling?! I wanted to like it but never got "my tone" from it.

Now everyone's tone is different. You have some nice basses - probably time you're as happy with your amp and cabs.

I'd honestly look at them together and budget for total replacement. The way the amp works with the cabs to define your tone can't be understated. (ie, take any of those amps you listed and play it through an 8x10, and your tone would be greatly different from your 2x10/1x15 cabs.)

Just try stuff out in person if you can. I went on a tone hunt years ago and stuff I thought I would love based on reviews, I wasn't very happy with. I ended up loving the tone of a BBE BMax preamp I picked up here for cheap. (and bought a power amp, rack tuner and rack to round out the whole setup)

You said new, but look at the used section here too - bunch of good stuff at a solid discount. For stuff you can't try out in person, you can buy used and resell for minimal loss if you don't like it.

But first thing first - check out your SWR to make sure its running right and you have the gain controls set up right. It shouldn't distort. Also, a single tube in the preamp doesn't mean the amp is designed for rock - it just minimally warms up the tone a bit, rounds off the edges.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Ashtray. I agree, I need to re-evaluate my cabs, too, but money - you know how it goes.

Unfortunately, in Vermont, where I live, there are very few music stores, and the selection in what we have leaves a lot to be desired. I am certainly going to go with used.

I've always found the SWR EQ to be a bit frustrating. I don't want to be dealing with parametrics when I'm on stage, trying to fix a tone. I know some people are really fast with them, I'm not.
 
#14
lordradish said:
Something else I'm wondering... I generally run the SM400S as stereo in the two cab

Thanks, Ashtray. I agree, I need to re-evaluate my cabs, too, but money - you know how it goes.

Unfortunately, in Vermont, where I live, there are very few music stores, and the selection in what we have leaves a lot to be desired. I am certainly going to go with used.

I've always found the SWR EQ to be a bit frustrating. I don't want to be dealing with parametrics when I'm on stage, trying to fix a tone. I know some people are really fast with them, I'm not.
Click to expand...

The SWR has bi-amping outputs, right? Is that how you're running them? Do you have a horn in your cab? I've had a blown horn before cause distortion. I'd play around with that to make sure you don't have a cab issue that a new head wouldn't solve.

Cash strapped? What are you, a musician? ;)
 
#15
ashtray said:
The SWR has bi-amping outputs, right? Is that how you're running them? Do you have a horn in your cab? I've had a blown horn before cause distortion. I'd play around with that to make sure you don't have a cab issue that a new head wouldn't solve.

Cash strapped? What are you, a musician? ;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the money to buy the mansion, too.

It does have biamping (with x-over) that I've used a few times, but generally I just run the parallel (which says 250 w a side). It does make me wonder if it's a bit underpowered. Regardless, I'm ready for something new and lighter.

Even when I have the tweeter on my Eden turned down all the way, I still hear a bit of distortion.
 
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#16
Agree - the SM400 should be pretty clean, although I had an SM500 and it just wasn't my tone, either. I found it too sterile/not warm enough. You might want to look at Thunderfunks. They are warm, clear, clean and punchy. They are alos fairly mid-punchy, especially earlier iterations - the newer ones are a bit bigger down low, but still nice and tight.
 
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#17
lordradish said:
Yeah, I'm still waiting for the money to buy the mansion, too.

It does have biamping (with x-over) that I've used a few times, but generally I just run the parallel (which says 250 w a side). It does make me wonder if it's a bit underpowered. Regardless, I'm ready for something new and lighter.

Even when I have the tweeter on my Eden turned down all the way, I still hear a bit of distortion.
Click to expand...

If you're not bridging it then you're not getting anywhere near what that amp should sound like.
 
#19
Alexander said:
Agree - the SM400 should be pretty clean, although I had an SM500 and it just wasn't my tone, either. I found it too sterile/not warm enough. You might want to look at Thunderfunks. They are warm, clear, clean and punchy. They are alos fairly mid-punchy, especially earlier iterations - the newer ones are a bit bigger down low, but still nice and tight.
Click to expand...
Isn't the Thunderfunk essentially the same design?
 
#20
I've got a Shuttle 9.2 and 2 4*10 focus cabs and can honestly say it is the best rig i have ever played through. If you are thinking Genz Benz, this guy may be of help to you :

This guy also, he does waffle on a bit but he makes his rig sound top:
 

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