Some Ampeg refresh?

[fourstringburn]

Hey Fourstringburn - FYI the front of the 8 pro is the SVP-CL preamp minus one tube (3 instead of 4), and is known for being warm and clean, especially for studio recording.
I do agree that the SVP-Pro sounds great. It's probably my favorite of the Ampeg rack mounted pre's.

Apparently true, but I get more of a thick and heavier tone from the SVT8 whereas with my SVP can a great responsive and clear tone with minimal EQ. Also, the tube driven drive knob adds all the grit I desire.

To be fair, I haven't spent much time with the SVT8 as a stand alone amp. I just couldn't get close to the tone I love with my SVP right off the bat. It may be I need to play around with the variable power levels on the SVT8 as that might affect the overall tone if the preamp drive level changes when the power amp is also reduced.

I'm just more than satisfied with the tone of my SVP and the SVT8 makes an awesome power amp for it.

 

[40Hz]

I didn't sound bad, but I quickly moved to the Eden WT after I got it...which, IMO, was a better am

Which is a perfect illustration of how important personal taste is when you’re designing an amp’s sound and feature set.

In my case I never cared for the sound of any Eden amp I plugged into. It’s a more than nice enough amp. Well built. Professionally designed. But they somehow never connected with me. I played through them a few times at gigs where the backline was provided. (Pretty nice backline when you get an Eden and a Bag End instead of the beat to hell Hartke or Rumble you usually see, right?) And I got a good sound, no question about it. Just not my preferred sound. Does that make Eden a bad choice? Nope. An Eden is a fine bass amp. It’s just not a good choice for me.

Ampeg is the same way. You like it or ya don’t.

I’m sure part of my Ampeg admiration comes from once being 14 and spending my life’s savings buying a used B-15N for a princely $125 back in 1969 (about $1075 in today’s dollars) to practice at home with when I got drafted into being my cousin’s backup bass player. His 60s era JB (on loan to me) into an Ampeg that was pumping through its CTS loaded 15” portaflex cab is etched in my brain as one of the two acceptable ways an electric bass is supposed to sound.

We do tend to like best what we grew up with. Numerous studies have made the strong argument that most of our personal tastes (especially in music) are fairly established by the time we’re in our mid 20s. It’s not just nostalgia that’s driving it. Our first loves tend to remain with us no matter which direction we ultimately end up going.

 

[Lowbrow]

My B200-R combo was the best sounding bass amp I have ever used. Until it rattled itself useless. A reboot that retained the amp’s preamp circuit, corrected the model’s build flaws and incorporated lightweight cab construction would be amazing and I believe very popular.

 

[drumvsbass]

With all due respect to the other brands, THEY compete with Ampeg, not the other way around

This all day long.

 

[el murdoque]

Ampeg has recently done the PF-20T and 50T and the matching flip top cabinets.
Modern tube amps packed with nice features (automatic dummy load + transformer DI out, just to name two)
that will vanish inside the cab when you flip the lid. There's a massive oldschool B15 vibe to the whole thing, but there's a lot of modern in there, too.

That shows Ampeg is capable of looking at the market and the trends and whatnots and then turn around and run off in a completely different direction. With success.

 

[Jim C]

Some interesting observations and thoughts in this thread.
* Can we all agree that Ampeg wrote the book on bass amplification?
* That they are an iconic brand and have managed to preserve their signature sound?
(pretty cool that a 69' SVT and a brand new one out of the box sound really close)
* That despite a few reliability issues they have probably released more new bass amps over the last 5-10 years than any other manufacturer. If not the most, they have made a lot; classic series, heritage, PF series, Pro series, combos, and others. They also started making pedals again.
No other company offers as many selections (that i can think of).

I think that many players in the future will want the Ampeg sound and I agree that Yamaha must maintain the sound (which to me is the same as the brand).
Many will also want lighter weight and modern features.

When you think about it, they really were not that far behind the tech curve which is evident by all the kind words expressed for nearly all of their products.

So what went wrong?
I'm thinking that the reason for nearly any brand of MI amplification to change has hands has to do with either profit or a key designer/owner leaving.
Ampeg did fine despite the core designers and owners leaving many years ago.

If it was profit, what was the issue?
They owned all the patents, factory, market share, etc.
Their prices were approximately the same as other companies (or maybe higher).
Did they offer too many models which caused overhead and manufacturing to have too high a ratio of cost to units sold?

Was it only the management that caused them to be sold?
If so, what will Yamaha do differently to make it profitable?

Could Yamaha streamline overhead and production costs while keeping the street price the same thus
increasing profits?
I don't see the Yamaha company culture as one that will dumb the down the product or scrimp on components or manufacturing.

Maybe prices rise or their marketing efforts will be more successful?
Very curious as to their business plan as well as the timing.
Thoughts?

 

[40Hz]

That shows Ampeg is capable of looking at the market and the trends and whatnots and then turn around and run off in a completely different direction.

I don’t see any new direction for Ampeg in the PF series tube amps. If anything they're a reaffirmation of classic Ampeg design. Sure, there’s a few very nice features, such as the multiple direct outs, that lets it serve double duty in the studio as a direct source, and enhances its ease of use now that we’ve largely gone over to FOH systems. And the extra wattage, easier availability, warranty, and much more affordable price tag are definitely welcome. But to my eyes and ears they’re still just B-15s at heart. The good news is that “just a B-15” is a whole lotta “just.” Which is something Ampeg understands quite well.

Or so I think anyway.

 

[Al Kraft]

Some interesting observations and thoughts in this thread.
* Can we all agree that Ampeg wrote the book on bass amplification?
* That they are an iconic brand and have managed to preserve their signature sound?
(pretty cool that a 69' SVT and a brand new one out of the box sound really close)
* That despite a few reliability issues they have probably released more new bass amps over the last 5-10 years than any other manufacturer. If not the most, they have made a lot; classic series, heritage, PF series, Pro series, combos, and others. They also started making pedals again.
No other company offers as many selections (that i can think of).

I think that many players in the future will want the Ampeg sound and I agree that Yamaha must maintain the sound (which to me is the same as the brand).
Many will also want lighter weight and modern features.

When you think about it, they really were not that far behind the tech curve which is evident by all the kind words expressed for nearly all of their products.

So what went wrong?
I'm thinking that the reason for nearly any brand of MI amplification to change has hands has to do with either profit or a key designer/owner leaving.
Ampeg did fine despite the core designers and owners leaving many years ago.

If it was profit, what was the issue?
They owned all the patents, factory, market share, etc.
Their prices were approximately the same as other companies (or maybe higher).
Did they offer too many models which caused overhead and manufacturing to have too high a ratio of cost to units sold?

Was it only the management that caused them to be sold?
If so, what will Yamaha do differently to make it profitable?

Could Yamaha streamline overhead and production costs while keeping the street price the same thus
increasing profits?
I don't see the Yamaha company culture as one that will dumb the down the product or scrimp on components or manufacturing.

Maybe prices rise or their marketing efforts will be more successful?
Very curious as to their business plan as well as the timing.
Thoughts?

I think Yamaha will help Ampeg examine those questions and then have the cash and tech resources to invest in well thought-out answers.

 

[Raw N Low]

Apparently true, but I get more of a thick and heavier tone from the SVT8 whereas with my SVP can a great responsive and clear tone with minimal EQ. Also, the tube driven drive knob adds all the grit I desire.

To be fair, I haven't spent much time with the SVT8 as a stand alone amp. I just couldn't get close to the tone I love with my SVP right off the bat. It may be I need to play around with the variable power levels on the SVT8 as that might affect the overall tone if the preamp drive level changes when the power amp is also reduced.

I'm just more than satisfied with the tone of my SVP and the SVT8 makes an awesome power amp for it.

The 8pro has a tricky front end because the SVP-CL isn't as quick as the SVP-Pro. I've found you can approximate by keepin the Ultra Low are setting 1 or 2 and using the power reduction setting for grit. Ampeg marketed this for bedroom level EQ but, it can be used to add grit, OD, and sparkle to the sound.

I ran my SVP-BSP in front of my 8pro and still preferred the BSP's grit and OD over the tweaked 8pro. These are fun amps to tinker with. Hope your enjoying yours as much as I am. These are awesome class D amps.

 

[Bent77]

With all due respect to the other brands, THEY compete with Ampeg, not the other way around

I still think the 7 Pro is as good as anything on the market micro-wise, especially now that they've fixed it. Bigger than most micros, but still very manageable. Cabs are probably lacking a bit as they tend to stick to ceramic magnets and their neos aren't their best sellers, but I don't care for the 3-way designs as much as trad bass cabs and would be just as happy if none of them had tweeters or mid drivers. I can tell you, though, that when Ampeg/Yamaha stuff starts to come out, the amps most likely for facelifts will be the micros and combos. Just a hunch, but I think that's where they stand to gain.

I think the BA V2 series is a pretty damn good amp, especially for the price range. Be interesting to see what is done to improve these other than make them able to use an extension cab

 

[Wasnex]

I'd like to see an update to the SVT7 pro with bullet proof reliability!

I would like to see them reintroduce the SVT8-Pro with the bass control revoiced like the original SVTs, rock solid reliability, and an attractive price. I am not going to hold my breath though.

 

[Wasnex]

Weight reduction (to me) isn’t innovation.

Basically your own argument suggests making a lighter, authentic sounding SVT can't be done without innovation .

I think it really comes down more to design choices. Do we really need a big heavy wooden case? IMHO, this is a styling choice. I have no idea what sort of market research has been done as far as customer preferences, but I think part of the secret to making the Mesa Strategy and Prodigy so light was their assembly method did not involve a large wooden head case. I have Bronco cases for my Mesa Titan and M9 and I believe the case accounts for close to 1/3 of the total weight of the amp.

Also I am not totally convinced the physical size and weight of the transformers are key to the sound. I believe @agedhorse has said that transformers can be made smaller and lighter if different core materials and perhaps winding techniques are used. I couldn't tell you how much using different construction techniques will change the sound of a transformer, but in general the claim I have seen is the power transformer does not have much impact on the sound of an amp. You just need to hit a certain voltage, current, and impedance spec. So at the minimum, a more high tech and light weight power transformer could probably be used to shave a few pounds off the design. Of course that may increase manufacturing costs.

I think Ampeg continues to make SVTs heavy because it fits into their marketing strategy. In other words there is concern that hard core Ampeg lovers would reject a modern light weight SVT even if it did sound right.

 

[CaptainWally]

Can we all agree that Ampeg wrote the book on bass amplification?

Yes!

That they are an iconic brand and have managed to preserve their signature sound?

Yes!

That despite a few reliability issues they have probably released more new bass amps over the last 5-10 years than any other manufacturer. If not the most, they have made a lot; classic series, heritage, PF series, Pro series, combos, and others. They also started making pedals again.
No other company offers as many selections (that i can think of).

Maybe. The pedals look cool and sound great online, but I haven't had a chance to hear them. I actually don't think that a large quantity of new or existing products in necessarily a good thing. I actually appreciate how Aguilar and Mesa have tightened up their lines with a focus on what most bassists are really after. As I mentioned, the fact that the SVT3 Pro is still being sold is mind boggling to me. Both that Ampeg is selling it, and, ostensibly, people are buying it.

Ashdown has a truly dizzying array of new gadgets and doodads all the time. As well as a persistent reputation of having reliability and quality issues. I'd rather see a company hit the mark with the right products, establish a track record of trust, and evolve them over time.

I think that many players in the future will want the Ampeg sound and I agree that Yamaha must maintain the sound (which to me is the same as the brand).
Many will also want lighter weight and modern features.

Yes! An updated SVT7 pro and a cool Neo 12, please!

So what went wrong?

*shrug* As far as I know, nothing went wrong. Maybe they are wildly successful? But, IMO, they are a bit out of the Zeitgeist in terms of what bassists are after. I like the brand/sound, and I'd love to see them tighten up their product offerings to match what I'm after.

If something *has* gone wrong, I'm guessing it's that they are too rooted in their own nostalgia. It seems obvious they would want to retain some classic offerings, but, IMO, they haven't effectively evolved a complementary modern line.

 

[CaptainWally]

I think Ampeg continues to make SVTs heavy because it fits into their marketing strategy. In other words there is concern that hard core Ampeg lovers would reject a modern light weight SVT even if it did sound right.

Maybe? But it's not like Ampeg haven't made overtures at competing in the modern space. The SVT7 pro + their Neo line. The fact that they don't even offer a 12" cab is revealing. That's the #1 seller for Aguilar, Bergantino, Mesa, et al.

 

[Wasnex]

Apparently true, but I get more of a thick and heavier tone from the SVT8 whereas with my SVP can a great responsive and clear tone with minimal EQ. Also, the tube driven drive knob adds all the grit I desire.

To be fair, I haven't spent much time with the SVT8 as a stand alone amp. I just couldn't get close to the tone I love with my SVP right off the bat. It may be I need to play around with the variable power levels on the SVT8 as that might affect the overall tone if the preamp drive level changes when the power amp is also reduced.

I'm just more than satisfied with the tone of my SVP and the SVT8 makes an awesome power amp for it.

My SVT8-Pro comes very close to the clean sound of my vintage SVTs. I would say it pretty much nails the mids and highs but the low end is not quite right. The vintage amps lists the Bass control works at 40hz and the SVT8-Pro works at 20hz. The components on the schematic make me wonder if this is a typo, but my ears tell me it's accurate. Due to this I have to run the bass control higher on the SVT8-Pro and you need to select the right contour on the Ultra Low switch.

Also the Power Reduction/Drive circuit does really work the way I think it should. With the circuit off, I don't think you can get any drive out of the preamp as it is super clean. With Power Reduction engaged, you need to vary the input Gain in order to set the basic threshold where the amp develops drive. The Drive control hardly has any effect at all. Basically you get the signal level close with the input Gain control, and then fine tune with the Drive control; the impact of the Drive control is very subtle. The Power control allows you to balance levels with the circuit on versus off.

I wish the Drive control had more range. Basically I think you should be able to run up the Gain a bit more, and then use just the Drive and Power controls to manage your OD tone, but it doesn't work this way on my amp. I can't say all of the SVT8-Pros work this way, but a few others have said their Power Reduction/Drive circuit functions just like mine.

IMHO low levels of drive are similar to the grind you get out of an SVT. I don't think the circuit is very authentic at higher levels of drive but it does produce some distortion you may find interesting, or not.

Overall I think its a great sounding amp, but perhaps they didn't work all the bugs out of the Power Reduction/Drive circuit.

 

[Wasnex]

Maybe? But it's not like Ampeg haven't made overtures at competing in the modern space. The SVT7 pro + their Neo line. The fact that they don't even offer a 12" cab is revealing. That's the #1 seller for Aguilar, Bergantino, Mesa, et al.

You're right. Ampeg has followed and even led the market in many ways. They made the V4B a lot lighter and everyone seems to be happy. Maybe the SVT is/was next.

Ampeg does offer 12s. For your review:
Ampeg SVT-112AV | SVT Bass Cabinet
Ampeg SVT-212AV | SVT Bass Cabinet

 

[CaptainWally]

You're right. Ampeg has followed and even led the market in many ways. They made the V4B a lot lighter and everyone seems to be happy. Maybe the SVT is/was next.

Ampeg does offer 12s. For your review:
Ampeg SVT-112AV | SVT Bass Cabinet
Ampeg SVT-212AV | SVT Bass Cabinet

I stand corrected. I was referring to their Neo line.

 

[JimmyM]

Some interesting observations and thoughts in this thread.
* Can we all agree that Ampeg wrote the book on bass amplification?
* That they are an iconic brand and have managed to preserve their signature sound?
(pretty cool that a 69' SVT and a brand new one out of the box sound really close)
* That despite a few reliability issues they have probably released more new bass amps over the last 5-10 years than any other manufacturer. If not the most, they have made a lot; classic series, heritage, PF series, Pro series, combos, and others. They also started making pedals again.
No other company offers as many selections (that i can think of).

I think that many players in the future will want the Ampeg sound and I agree that Yamaha must maintain the sound (which to me is the same as the brand).
Many will also want lighter weight and modern features.

When you think about it, they really were not that far behind the tech curve which is evident by all the kind words expressed for nearly all of their products.

So what went wrong?
I'm thinking that the reason for nearly any brand of MI amplification to change has hands has to do with either profit or a key designer/owner leaving.
Ampeg did fine despite the core designers and owners leaving many years ago.

If it was profit, what was the issue?
They owned all the patents, factory, market share, etc.
Their prices were approximately the same as other companies (or maybe higher).
Did they offer too many models which caused overhead and manufacturing to have too high a ratio of cost to units sold?

Was it only the management that caused them to be sold?
If so, what will Yamaha do differently to make it profitable?

Could Yamaha streamline overhead and production costs while keeping the street price the same thus
increasing profits?
I don't see the Yamaha company culture as one that will dumb the down the product or scrimp on components or manufacturing.

Maybe prices rise or their marketing efforts will be more successful?
Very curious as to their business plan as well as the timing.
Thoughts?

LOUD got an influx of cash by a leveraged buyout. They thought LOUD was spread too thin with other products and should concentrate on Mackie since it was by far their best seller.

 

[JimmyM]

You're right. Ampeg has followed and even led the market in many ways. They made the V4B a lot lighter and everyone seems to be happy. Maybe the SVT is/was next.

It was already lightened up from the originals by at least 10 lbs.

 

[Wasnex]

It was already lightened up from the originals by at least 10 lbs.

That happened a couple of decades ago. The 87 Skunk was the last SVT made to vintage spec and it was listed at 95lbs. The CL is listed at 80 lbs.