My best-sounding amp (regardless of wattage) is still the 1960's B-18N I've had since age 15! The next best sounding amp (I've personally owned) was the SVT cabinet driven by a Peavey Mark III head.
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Some Ampeg refresh?
- Thread starter CaptainWally
- Start date
I don't think most Ampeg owners are really committed to big heavy amps, so IMHO there is plenty of room for improvements. For example, many Talkbass members clamor for Ampeg to make an SVT that still sounds and peforms like an SVT, but only weights 45 lbs...Even a 60lb SVT would be a huge improvement IMHO.
Ampeg definitely has a reputation for tone, but don’t think they haven’t tried to be innovative in the past. It hasn’t always worked out, but they gave it a go in years past.
Examples I have owned:
Dual Drive (DD12) cabinet (early 90s) This thing had a 12” with a horn on the front side and a 12” facing the rear. It had a four rack space opening at the top where you could add an amp to make it one of the heaviest combo amps known to man. It was sort of gutless, especially for an Ampeg, and really didn’t have good tone at any volume. As I mentioned, it weighed a lot. Seems it was over 90 lbs in a cabinet not much bigger than a 112. They made a 15” version (DD15). I didn’t own one, but I know it was heavier.
Iso-vent (mid 1990s). This was one of those cabinets that most people could not move by themselves. It was fairly small for what it contained. In the bottom half of the cabinet, it had two 15” speakers mounted face to face in an isobaric design (reversed phase in wiring so they would be in-phase in physical movement). In the top half of the cabinet it had two 10” speakers and a horn. It was a 4 ohm cabinet in full range, but could be bi-amped as two 8-ohm sections. Unlike the DD12, it sounded pretty good, but outweighed a 1973 Honda Civic.
810 Fridge, Blandex years (early 2000’s?) I think this was an attempt to lighten the fridge, but it affected the tone. The one I had was one of the darkest sounding cabinets I’ve owned, but it wasn’t as heavy as the old fridge.
Examples I have owned:
Dual Drive (DD12) cabinet (early 90s) This thing had a 12” with a horn on the front side and a 12” facing the rear. It had a four rack space opening at the top where you could add an amp to make it one of the heaviest combo amps known to man. It was sort of gutless, especially for an Ampeg, and really didn’t have good tone at any volume. As I mentioned, it weighed a lot. Seems it was over 90 lbs in a cabinet not much bigger than a 112. They made a 15” version (DD15). I didn’t own one, but I know it was heavier.
Iso-vent (mid 1990s). This was one of those cabinets that most people could not move by themselves. It was fairly small for what it contained. In the bottom half of the cabinet, it had two 15” speakers mounted face to face in an isobaric design (reversed phase in wiring so they would be in-phase in physical movement). In the top half of the cabinet it had two 10” speakers and a horn. It was a 4 ohm cabinet in full range, but could be bi-amped as two 8-ohm sections. Unlike the DD12, it sounded pretty good, but outweighed a 1973 Honda Civic.
810 Fridge, Blandex years (early 2000’s?) I think this was an attempt to lighten the fridge, but it affected the tone. The one I had was one of the darkest sounding cabinets I’ve owned, but it wasn’t as heavy as the old fridge.
Not me. Change the SVT and don't keep the sound = me N/I. The only way to do it is to replace the power tranny with SMPS. If they can keep the sound, I'm all for it. The fact that they haven't done it yet speaks volumes.
You kids forget what it was like for us older folks when we had to walk 6 miles uphill both ways to school with our SVT's in the winter.
Did the Mesa Strategy use SMPS? I don't think so. 465W at 49lbs. Of course the Strategy was discontinued due to reliability issues, but perhaps it would be possible to make a 45 lb 300W tube amp that is reliable without going to SMPS. You wouldn't be able to do it with a big heavy wooden head case.
Well the good news is all bets are off with Yamaha. However, let's face it...the money is in the low end market, and low prices sell. The PF500 was the best selling amp on the market for 2 or 3 years when it first came out. I have to disagree that the Ampeg micros are characterless, though. They sound like micros, sure, but I've been using my old Micro VR stack for gigs lately because everyone loves the look and the small footprint, and it's crushin' tonally. Also, having sat with the 7 Pro and PF800 and ABing them on gigs, I do like the 7 Pro better. That said, I like both of them. You may be right about the formula for making them, but I still get the warm fuzzies when I plug into them. Except the 7 Pro...lost that in a band divorce settlement a year ago. YMMV.
But I'd be all over a "Heritage" Micro VR with a tube pre and sparkly black grillcloth
I would really like to see more tube integration in their micros. But you still have to hit price points.
Well at least you had 500 degrees of molten hot tubes to keep you warm!
The Strategy used smaller transformers and way more tubes. No thank you. Very nice amp...I've played through one and liked it a lot. Wasn't an SVT. Plenty of people still buy and use SVT's, and it's enough to keep the market sustained. I'm glad they brought back the small tube amps now that I don't need a butt-ton of power, but many folks still want SVT's as they are. I imagine they could make one with 300w that's lighter and at least still sound like Ampeg, but they should call it the SVT Lite as a penalty for those of you who don't want to lift the real thing
Well the good news is all bets are off with Yamaha. However, let's face it...the money is in the low end market, and low prices sell. The PF500 was the best selling amp on the market for 2 or 3 years when it first came out. I have to disagree that the Ampeg micros are characterless, though. They sound like micros, sure, but I've been using my old Micro VR stack for gigs lately because everyone loves the look and the small footprint, and it's crushin' tonally. Also, having sat with the 7 Pro and PF800 and ABing them on gigs, I do like the 7 Pro better. That said, I like both of them. You may be right about the formula for making them, but I still get the warm fuzzies when I plug into them. Except the 7 Pro...lost that in a band divorce settlement a year ago. YMMV.
But I'd be all over a "Heritage" Micro VR with a tube pre and sparkly black grillcloth
I definitely can't debate the tone and sounds of the newer amps. For me, it's purely aesthetics and I do understand why they did what they had to appeal for market appeal. This evening, I took time to play through my SVP-BSP preamp and was really blown away by the quality and features of this unit.
It's truly a two channel preamp with a gain and volume for each channel -- and a master pot for combined! How cool is that???
This bad boy has two (yes) two DI's each a level trim pot with a separate preamp out for the clean and OD channel. Did I mention that they included an effects loop for each channel? Man I'm getting the vapors just typing this.
It's stuff like this I would like to see the company go back to. I'm so impressed by the build quality that I'm tempted to buy another!
That preamp also cost almost twice as much as the PF350. They were awesome studio grade preamps, but they just didn't sell. Very few rack preamps do these days. I doubt you'll see those types of pres mated to $300 micros, but I could certainly stand to see a little tubage added onto them.I definitely can't debate the tone and sounds of the newer amps. For me, it's purely aesthetics and I do understand why they did what they had to appeal for market appeal. This evening, I took time to play through my SVP-BSP preamp and was really blown away by the quality and features of this unit.
It's truly a two channel preamp with a gain and volume for each channel -- and a master pot for combined! How cool is that???
This bad boy has two (yes) two DI's each a level trim pot with a separate preamp out for the clean and OD channel. Did I mention that they included an effects loop for each channel? Man I'm getting the vapors just typing this.
It's stuff like this I would like to see the company go back to. I'm so impressed by the build quality that I'm tempted to buy another!
The Strategy used smaller transformers and way more tubes. No thank you. Very nice amp...I've played through one and liked it a lot. Wasn't an SVT. Plenty of people still buy and use SVT's, and it's enough to keep the market sustained. I'm glad they brought back the small tube amps now that I don't need a butt-ton of power, but many folks still want SVT's as they are. I imagine they could make one with 300w that's lighter and at least still sound like Ampeg, but they should call it the SVT Lite as a penalty for those of you who don't want to lift the real thing
In order to produce more power, you need transformers with more capacity. Just throwing more tubes into the amp is not going to do it. The Strategy had 8 output tubes and each tube would have to make 58W in order to produce 465W total. The SVT has 6 output tubes and each tube would have to make 50W in order to produce 300W total. So the Strategy actually ran the tubes more aggressively than the SVT. Perhaps this is the source of the reliability problem.
I think there should be big concern about the market and sensitivity to weight. A few years back there were a bunch of super nice hybrid and solid state amps that weighed 30-45lbs (or more). Those have all pretty much been discontinued and replaced by compact or micro Class-D amps.
Also I don't think younger generations have as strong of ties to tubes as us old codgers. The world is changing and many things we have taken for granted are becoming obsolete. More and more people are gigging with IEMs and not even using an amp any more. Convenience has been replacing fidelity for a couple of decades now. Even you claim to hardly ever bring out your SVT and 810.
I won't be surprised if we are approaching the time when it is no longer possible to sell enough SVTs to cover manufacturing costs. So either Ampeg needs to innovate and find a way to make SVTs that are attractive to a wider customer base, or production will cease. I guess the question becomes, is there still money to be made with a new lighter design, or does Yamaha just milk the existing SVT's for all they are worth.
Course if everyone is happy with V4Bs, I guess it's no big deal, but I prefer a bit more clean headroom. My 69 and 87 are just fine for basement playing though, which is all I do anymore.
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If ya ask me, Ampeg can make more Ampegs. The actual Yamaha brand is plenty good at making 'radical new stuff' from time to time...
Maybe I'm getting it confused with the 400. I thought they had similar power amps.
I'd be trotting out the PF-50T a lot more if the guys in the band didn't like the look of the Micro VR so much
But I WILL bust out that SVT on one of our gigs soon. This band is so good that they deserve to hear it at least once. I just have to pick the right joint. And I have to re-lose the weight I re-gained and join back at the gym again.Jon Button is doing a Who tour with a PF-50T and two 210av's. Of course, he was cranked well into the red
but still...that's something I never expected.But as long as bass players want SVT's, we will have SVT's. And as long as pro bassists want SVT's, then enough people will want them to where they'll sell in big enough numbers to keep it sustainable. It's that one amp that's taken on a life of its own despite all odds.
The logical next step would be a pf100t as a modern alternative to the v4b
There is so much they could do.
There is so much they could do.
I'd like to see an update to the SVT7 pro with bullet proof reliability!
I didn’t say Ampeg owners or Ampeg are committed to heavy iron. They’re committed to a certain sound.
Weight reduction (to me) isn’t innovation. We know how to reduce the weight of bass amps. Every amp maker out there is already doing it. There’s even established “best practices” for it. To me that’s basic product engineering.
Ampeg could release a lighter amp tomorrow that would satisfy a lot of potential new customers. But I get the feeling Ampeg (and probably a few other companies) has already has made such prototypes. And I’m guessing they didn’t quite capture that elusive sound the company is famous for. Maybe with the huge financial and technical resources it now has access to since Yamaha has entered the picture we’ll finally see the advent of a 10 lb. hardcover book sized SVT for $350 that exactly matches the sound and response of the original. And I have no doubts it’ll eventually be done. But I’m not waiting up nights.
Boat anchor transformers and a rack of glass valves under the hood generate some sonic synergy it seems. If that were an easy thing to sidestep I think it would have already been done. There are a lot of smart people and clever circuit designers out there.
Exactly on point. For every working pro, there are many more bassists that play clubs and bars 1-2 times a month. Mid/small rooms. Tiny stages. A couple 12s and a micro fit in a car trunk, are a breeze to carry, don't take up much stage room, and sound great. As you mention..some folks have FOH, and some don't even use/need an amp. For stuff I do, it's completely unfathomable that I would haul around an SVT3 pro and a 100 lb. 4x10, let alone an SVT and 8x10.
Clearly, Ampeg is holding on dearly to the nostalgia and affinity people have for the brand....one need only look at their website...which I think is warranted and earned. If they could capture some modicum of the Ampeg sound/vibe in a modern, flexible format, I think people would snap it up.
I'd love to see a 7 pro update and a cool Neo but vintage sounding 12" cab from Ampeg (35 lbs. or less please).
They are actually collecting ideas from users on the Ampeg-page, though you have to join and register. I got an invocation via Instagram and thought: Well, that's either customer-service and collecting data - or it's Yamaha checking out what the market wants and needs. I think so, too: There will be more money in the low market, so they might update the PF series and maybe make it tubey as everybody actually stuffs tubes in the class D Guccibag-amps: Markbass, GK, Mesa... (I wished Aguilar would follow the call ;-)) and add a facelift. I would expect an update for the 7pro and make it smaller and lighter to compare with Mesa & Co. - maybe an update and facelift for the Neo-series with light and small cabs to get a foot in that ultralight-market.
I’d love to see something that melds classic Ampeg sound and aesthetics with some of the features of Yamaha’s BBT 500H amp. Most notably, programmable frequency centers across 5 bands of active EQ.
