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Something we can all be outraged about together.

#41
I'll just leave this here to counteract the negativity of the thread subject...

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-Mike
 
#42
Double E said:
We have laws to uphold the majority's standards of what is "right". On 90% of moral debates you will usually find a consensus on what is considered lawful.
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Keep in mind, however, that, while it may give some lip service to natural law, much of Western jurisprudence is based on legal positivism, which holds that legality and morality are often mutually exclusive. Justice Holmes once stated, "This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice."

Dworkin's thinking is more in line with what you're talking about: That laws are reflective of the majority's ideas of right and wrong. Ultimately, it's an empirical question, though, and there's no simple answer to determine whether or not laws are reflective of morality. In reality, some probably are and than often serve a functionalist purpose far removed from traditional thinking with regard to morality.
 
#44
Unrepresented said:
Were you guilty of creating animal torture porn?
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Nope, but I used to get drunk after work and leave my dog locked in the back yard until 2:30 am. He hated that.
I also want to talk about things less and do things more. Like volunteering at the SPCA, cleaning up dog poop on the street in my neighborhood and on a broader level be more compassionate about animals and people.
I myself am a little outraged this morning. There was a delay on our local subway (BART) while I was waiting I noticed a guy come limping up with a cane. I offered him my seat on the bench where I was and he seemed embarassed. He thanked me but said no.
I started up a conversation with him and found out he had trouble getting around because of an injury he recieved fighting in the Vietnam war. The first train came and we both grinned at each other as people shoved around us to cram on to an already packed train.
When the next train came some people shoved in front of us so they could get on the train first. I decided to get on the last car because it was less crowded as usual. My new friend didn't have the mobility to rush over to the last car.
Right before I left I looked to see how he had done. The same two women who had shoved past us were now sitting in the handicap seats looking while he stood their clutching a pole. I have a gimpy ankle myself and I know how painful it can be to stand up and holding on while riding the BART.
I was pissed when I got to the last car. Should I have gotten on that car and said something? No, I could tell by my friend's character that he would not have liked it. After I calmed down I started thinking an praying about the situation here is what I came up with.
From now on I will sit in the handicap seats myself and if I see someone struggling I will give them the seat.
Then I asked myself If I was experiencing racist feelings. You see the two women are from a certain culture, (I know because I heard them talking) and most of the time when I see people acting that way on mass transit they are from that culture. I decided to go out of my way to offer seats and be kind to people from that culture. Also what about all the other people not from the culture who didn't offer him their seat? Hey, I hope somebody did. By the time I reached my stop I coulnd't see him in the other car.
I agree with many here that our culture can be ugly at times. I think the only way to change that is through a change of heart one person at a time. It is not a quick fix but I think the only one that will have real lasting impact. I want to be part of change for the better not part of the problem.
I don't want to piss anyone off here but I think we sometimes look at the extreme evils around us and ignore the maybe lesser evils we ourselves commit. Does it make us feel better to be outraged about these things?
I'm also not much of a debater I think endlessly picking things apart is a waste of time.
 
#45
sloasdaylight said:
So face-tattoos, internet porn, and public nudity lead to people torturing and mutilating animals?

It must be a totally Invalid Link Removed* thing that's gone on, as clearly this type of animal abuse is new and people haven't done this sort of stuff before.**

It's a good thing you're here to tell us how errant the ways of face tattoos, porn, and public nudity are and how they're destroying society.

*There totally haven't been years (decades?) of study on the behavior of violent people and serial killers noting the nearly universal link between serial killing and mutilating animals going back at least as early as the 60s. Oh, wait.

**except for Ted Bundy, David Berkowitz, Jeffery Dahmer, Brenda Spencer, Eric Harris, Dylan Klyebold, Mitchel Johnson, Albert DeSalvo (The Boston Strangler), and a few dozen or so more.
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+1.
 
#46
slobake said:
Then I asked myself If I was experiencing racist feelings. You see the two women are from a certain culture, (I know because I heard them talking) and most of the time when I see people acting that way on mass transit they are from that culture. I decided to go out of my way to offer seats and be kind to people from that culture.
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Why?
 
#48
Double E said:
The longwinded debates we have over certain hot-button issues only make it seem like we disagree alot. I think we all have more in common than we would dare admit.
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This. Disagreement, because it causes discord and mild trauma, especially with the anonymity of the internet, is easier for us to remember and think there is more of it than there really is.
 
#49
LiquidMidnight said:
Keep in mind, however, that, while it may give some lip service to natural law, much of Western jurisprudence is based on legal positivism, which holds that legality and morality are often mutually exclusive. Justice Holmes once stated, "This is a court of law, young man, not a court of justice."

Dworkin's thinking is more in line with what you're talking about: That laws are reflective of the majority's ideas of right and wrong. Ultimately, it's an empirical question, though, and there's no simple answer to determine whether or not laws are reflective of morality. In reality, some probably are and than often serve a functionalist purpose far removed from traditional thinking with regard to morality.
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That's alot of mumbo jumbo...I don't even know or care who Dworkin is.

Most people know in their heart what is right but their desire to be self serving or individualistic sometimes overrides.

Maybe some people don't want to be held to any moral standards, but all of us have expectations of how we'd like to be treated...that should be our compass.
 
#52
slobake said:
My kneejerk reaction is to be not let anyone I think is from that culture get away with this. I could block their way even trip them etc, etc, etc. When I find myself engaged in wrong thinking I like to the opposite so I am not part of the problem.
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You do realize however that you're still taking actions based on your perception of what someone's race/culture/whatever is though, right?
 
#60
Desmoface said:
If only it were a few.

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Link Removed

Steve
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I really doubt that a majority of the 7+ billion people on the planet are such scum as to lose faith in humanity.
If one's faith in the good of people is so shaken Id venture to say that its likely to have been flighty to begin with.

Yes, bad things happen and people are capable of doing horrible things, however thats all in contrast to the opposite. I think its safe to say that most people do not perpetrate these types of acts nor do they condone them.
 

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