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Sonic Farm/MAS Bass Amp project.

#186
Got off the phone with Mike about half an hour ago (called him about something else before NAMM and he got back to me on the drive back). Sounds like the Tantra and the cabs were both big hits at NAMM and caught the attention of lots of the right people. Very glad to see the amp and the cab get some wider exposure and I hope that it translates to big success for all involved.
 
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#188
Cool! Concise, intelligible, and informative -- that puts it in the upper echelon of NAMM videos already. Amp looks very cool. $2300 is still a lot of scratch, but considering what other boutique offerings are going for and all of the features and control that this one offers, it seems a relative bargain, especially for someone who will use it to something approaching its full potential. Seems like it would render EQ pedals and external HPFs largely redundant. Maybe the same for outboard compressors, too, though I know that people are particular about those.

Of course the tone and the performance will be the main things. I don't doubt that they'll be excellent, but it will be interesting to hear more when the amps start to get into people's hands.
 
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#189
+1. between the comp, parametric EQ, HPF, and overdrive (and buffered FX loop), the tantra basically renders half of my pedalboard obsolete. Not to mention that the Sonic Farm componentry and execution means that its probably a better version of each of those things than I could hope to get in pedal forma. Except OD, which is so subjective, and people love their specific OD pedals. personally I dont use it so much that I am tied to a specific pedal. If it sounds responsive, creamy and warm, I'm in.

$2300 seems like a lot for an amp, until you price out a DB751, and compare the feature set :-)
 
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#191
For those who are interested, Mike A. and Tim Seisser (@Tslicebass) will be hosting a get together at The Music Garage, 345 N. Loomis, in Chicago, this Sunday from 3:30 to 7:00. Showcase room. 5th floor. Mike will be bringing the Tantra amp -- I would presume some cabs as well -- and Tim will have some basses there. Might be some other folks as well.

That's all I know at the moment.
 
#193
J.Wolf said:
+1. between the comp, parametric EQ, HPF, and overdrive (and buffered FX loop), the tantra basically renders half of my pedalboard obsolete. Not to mention that the Sonic Farm componentry and execution means that its probably a better version of each of those things than I could hope to get in pedal forma. Except OD, which is so subjective, and people love their specific OD pedals. personally I dont use it so much that I am tied to a specific pedal. If it sounds responsive, creamy and warm, I'm in.

$2300 seems like a lot for an amp, until you price out a DB751, and compare the feature set :)
Click to expand...

Man, I'd like to try one of these. It looks very cool. And if everything was executed exactly as I would want...well...I would want!
However, it all's the extras (comp, OD, Hknobs) that could make it dissapointing, I fear. Remember the SWR Mo'?
As sweet as it looks, I'd have to try one and maybe havge a return policy to spend that dough.
 
#195
Dave Hill said:
Man, I'd like to try one of these. It looks very cool. And if everything was executed exactly as I would want...well...I would want!
However, it all's the extras (comp, OD, Hknobs) that could make it dissapointing, I fear. Remember the SWR Mo'?
As sweet as it looks, I'd have to try one and maybe have a return policy to spend that dough.
Click to expand...

I got to play the amp at the GTG. The situation didn't lend itself to calm examination -- or maybe it was just me. I got there later than I'd planned to, had to meet someone else after, and, of course had to try to play every bass there through every cab.

That said, as far as the "extras" go, they appeared to me to be well executed:

The harmonic generators come on gradually as you dial them in and I could detect no lag at all -- no glitches, no nothing. They either have the best tracking I've ever heard or the way they work is fundamentally different from a tracking type effect like an octaver or a POG, etc. They didn't sound like an "effect". There's a 2nd harmonic generator and a 4th harmonic generator -- I believe that Mike said the first adds thickness, the second growl and that's pretty much what it sounded like they were doing. Didn't sound or feel like EQing -- nothing at all like the Kosmos (which I didn't like) on the Peavey Minimega (which, to be fair, is 1/4 the price) and nothing like a pitch shifter (I'd initially pictured it as working something like a subtle, fancy Micro-POG). Hard to explain. It's like some sci-fi movie where you're injected with nano-bots and your musculature is subtly enhanced -- maybe you're a little taller, too, and your cheekbones become more prominent... I had Mike dial them in slowly while I played a nice fretless -- like I said, they came on very gradually and there was nothing weird or artificial sounding about the tone -- then I asked him to disengage them. When he did, the tone, which I'd very much liked before dialing anything in, suddenly felt thin and a bit threadbare by comparison. I think he had the 2nd harmonic generator up to 40% or 50% and the 4th harmonic generator up to about 25% -- I think beyond that could get "effecty" or hyped sounding -- and I'd have to spend more time with them to really get a feel for what they do and how to use them -- but the implementation was very slick. They were part of the sound, instead of something layered on the sound, if that makes sense.

How would I feel about using them? I don't know! The idea, at first blush, kinda feels like "cheating" -- like taking a PED, or being Photoshopped. On the other hand, the effect is more subtle and less hyped-sounding than the onboard preamps on a lot of basses (which I usually end up bypassing). If you are being photo-shopped, it's by a very skillful graphic artist. This is more a philosophical hangup (How do I feel about being "harmonically enhanced"? I'm okay with tubes, and they generate harmonics...) than a practical one. 99% of the time or more, I plug straight into the amp and use as little EQ as I feel I can get away with (though I'm okay with using more extreme EQ with a rig I don't like or to compensate for a weird mix). When I've used effects, they've been effects (fuzz, octave, envelope filter, in various combinations). I could absolutely see this being practically effective with electric bass, particularly when subtly applied, giving you girth and presence in the mix in a way that's different than tone-shaping via EQ. With upright? Dunno -- that's so harmonically rich, already, and upright bassists would tend, I think, to be more purist about their tone.

The compressor: It's become a minor cliche, when trying to make the point that something is good, to say something like "I don't usually like carrots -- don't eat 'em if I can help it. Their flavor gets in the way of other flavors. I liked these carrots, though -- couldn't get enough of 'em. They went perfectly with the rest of the dish -- brought out the best in the beets, the celery, everything. If they had carrots like this when I was a kid, I might have better eyesight today." Well... I don't usually like compressors. Don't use 'em if I can help it. I feel they interfere with my touch and dynamics and make me feel less connected to my instrument. Mike turned up the compressor, as I played, to about 50%, at which point he said, "That's a lot of compression." I could hear the sound fill out and even out some and, yeah, I could tell it was doing something, but I didn't get that icky feeling I usually do with compression and didn't feel it interfering with my touch in an obvious way. Still don't know if I'd use it much -- and I wouldn't ever practice with compression unless it was to practice using the compression -- but it didn't offend me. It might be the first compressor -- certainly the first onboard compressor -- to manage that. I've liked the subtle compression I've gotten playing some tube rigs, but even some of those don't feel "right" to me (they all compress a little differently). Take my compressor impressions for what they're worth -- I don't use compression live, and I haven't played any fancy studio units so I can't make comparisons there, but this one struck me as being well-tailored to bass and pretty transparent in its operation.

The EQ: I wanted to spend more time with this, to see 1) if I could get comfortable with a fully parametric EQ and 2) how natural it sounded in boost and cut. Didn't have time to do much of that, but I did ask another player (a cat named Shawn -- guy had a great touch; I was jealous of his tone!) to mess around with it while I played so I could hear it in action. He and Mike both did. Best thing I can say about it is that the sound stayed well-integrated as it changed -- never felt weird, never detected any of that phase-y lack of cohesiveness you can get with some EQs at more extreme settings. Aside from the overdrive, I spent the least time with this feature, though. Mike and Shawn both seemed pretty adept with the EQ -- able to zero in on a sound quickly. Three bands of overlapping, fully parametric EQ, though (in addition to bass and treble controls) is a lot of power -- there is the potential for harm as well as good. You could leave the "Q" control straight up for each band and use it as a semi-parametric EQ 'til you got used to it. You could, I guess, also leave the frequency controls straight up and use it as a "regular" 5-band EQ. Or bypass the EQ entirely -- I did try that, using the global low and high boosts from the 2DI4, and that's a nice way to run the amp, too.

OD: Only spent a minute here. Can get pretty gnarly (for me, anyway). Felt a bit much up top 'til I rolled the tone back some on the bass, but I guess I do that (at the bass or at the pedal) with most ODs. Could've explored its intermediate settings more.

Tone: I was, honestly, less attuned to this than I normally am, trying different basses and cabs in a new room. I did spend some time with a six string bass near the beginning of my time there, though. I don't usually play a six, so took some time to familiarize myself with the instrument and make sure I could remember which string I was on. (Nice instrument, by the way -- 33" scale with a taut and well-integrated B that held together past the 12th fret -- @Tslicebass is to be congratulated.) Spent some time playing chords up and down the neck and riffs in various registers and asking Tim Seisser questions about the bass (which, true to form, I ended up running passive). Wasn't messing with knobs then or even thinking about the amp -- just playing the bass and listening to it -- and that's my clearest tonal memory of the day. Deep, tight, full, very clear and articulate. The amp does have a "sound" I think -- it's not like plugging straight into a recording interface -- but it's less obviously colored than, say, an Ampeg. Never felt in the way, but communicated everything I did at the bass. No hair (at least not unless you crank the gain and drive it very hard), not obviously "tubey" but big, full, smooth, responsive, and harmonically rich. People who've played and gigged the 2DI4 (@J.Wolf -- anyone else?) would be able to comment with more authority than I.

Only played the amp in pentode mode while there. I've tried the 2DI4 in pentode and triode modes. Pentode is fatter and higher gain -- probably what most people would prefer most of the time -- but triode was more clear (and I could pop harmonics better), so, IMO, would be worth exploring, too.

Other impressions: The amp's a little bigger than I'd pictured. Not a bad thing -- makes it more easily navigable.

I was there for 75, maybe 80 minutes. Might seem like a lot of time, but it went by in a hurry.
 
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#196
Dave Hill said:
Man, I'd like to try one of these. It looks very cool. And if everything was executed exactly as I would want...well...I would want!
However, it all's the extras (comp, OD, Hknobs) that could make it dissapointing, I fear. Remember the SWR Mo'?
As sweet as it looks, I'd have to try one and maybe havge a return policy to spend that dough.
Click to expand...

Having played a SWR Mo and the Tantra, I would say they have almost nothing in common. I agree the Mo was a little disappointing all around, although some would argue that between the attention grabbing and marketing, that it was a success for the brand in general, as a showpiece. the results by most accounts were underwhelming. The tantra ALSO has some cool non-traditional features, but they're all geared towards tone shapine/tone conditioning, and each component stands on its own too feet, compared to the Mo, which bundled popular (and arguably cheesy versions of) effects into a rackmount head.

Put it this way: I'd buy a pedal with the tantra's harmonic generators or comp, i would NOT buy a pedal with the Mo bass's synth, for example.

I think (for better or worse, but IMO) its like comparing a baseline BMW 5 series with a tricked out Ford Fusion. Might be nice, comfortable, feature laden, but will never have the pedigree, design, or performance of the BMW which is designed with those things in mind as the main target for success.
 
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#199
J.Wolf said:
Having played a SWR Mo and the Tantra, I would say they have almost nothing in common. I agree the Mo was a little disappointing all around, although some would argue that between the attention grabbing and marketing, that it was a success for the brand in general, as a showpiece. the results by most accounts were underwhelming. The tantra ALSO has some cool non-traditional features, but they're all geared towards tone shapine/tone conditioning, and each component stands on its own too feet, compared to the Mo, which bundled popular (and arguably cheesy versions of) effects into a rackmount head.

Put it this way: I'd buy a pedal with the tantra's harmonic generators or comp, i would NOT buy a pedal with the Mo bass's synth, for example.

I think (for better or worse, but IMO) its like comparing a baseline BMW 5 series with a tricked out Ford Fusion. Might be nice, comfortable, feature laden, but will never have the pedigree, design, or performance of the BMW which is designed with those things in mind as the main target for success.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying, but, I can't see using a "baseline" anything as an analogy for the Tantra.

Everyone please take the Mo' comment out of my previous post... My point was there is a lot of "stuff" to get right on that head. And if it's not "right" for me I'd rather not pay for a vestigial feature on my amp.

And I'm NOT saying they didn't get it all right. They may have. I dunno. For the coin they better have.
 

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