Double Bass Sonores Gut Strings by Gerold Genssler

[triplelutz]

Here are some recordings to compare: both were made at the same club, with the bass and the microphone in the same position and the recorder set at the same input level. On one set of recordings, I’m using the Sonores orchestra strings; on the other, I’m using a Golden Spiral G and D, an Oliv A, and a Spirocore mittel E. The bass is a ca.1930 7/8 “Juzek”/Wilfer. In both cases, the Realist on the bass was plugged into an Acoustic Image Clarus 2R Series III and then straight into the house, with a Wizzy M-line on stage (but not in use). The recordings with the Sonores strings have no stage volume coming from the amp but there is a good bit of bass in the house, which was apparent onstage and which comes through in the recording; the recordings with the Golden Spirals/Oliv/Spirocore combination had no bass in the house or onstage, although on “Footprints” I do crank up the amp at some point (and it’s very apparent when that happens).

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First off....great playing. I love the ideas, the lines, the tone, and the attitude! Great! So I hear more sustain and front coming from the Sonores. Is that you're thought as well? I use Golden Spirals/Thomastics and have for years, but I want a set that feels like a gut but has the sustain and quickness of the metal......These Sonores sound like that to me.....

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Whoa Jeremy, that sounds great - the playing, the bass, the band too.

Phil's going to be having fits........

 

[Marcus Johnson]

I really didn't need to read that.

Hah! I knew that was coming.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

First off....great playing. I love the ideas, the lines, the tone, and the attitude! Great! So I hear more sustain and front coming from the Sonores. Is that you're thought as well? I use Golden Spirals/Thomastics and have for years, but I want a set that feels like a gut but has the sustain and quickness of the metal......These Sonores sound like that to me.....

Thanks for the compliments. The group on the Sonores recording has a 16-year-old playing drums!

I would say yes to the comment about more sustain coming from the Sonores, but I feel like the Golden Spirals have more of that gut *pop* at the beginning of the note. [EDIT: I just listened to a bit of those recordings on the speakers of an iMac, and this is not necessarily apparent in the recording. It is, however, when you listen to the original 24-bit .wav files with headphones.] I too have always searched for "feels like gut but has the sustain and quickness of metal," and it may be true that these are the answer; but when I put those Golden Spirals and the Oliv on, I played one note at the gig and was like "Oh yeah, there's no substitute for this."

I honestly think I enjoy Olivs more than these Sonores, as great as they are; but if you like a certain zing in your sound, and you tend to destroy Olivs as I do, the Sonores are a better choice.

 

[Uncletoad]

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Got a chance to listen. Nice playing. Fun gig. Nice conversation.

Both are great sounds. I kinda prefer the Golden spiral/Oliv/Spirocore thing. More Meat and Potatoes in my little headphones.

 

[Adrian Cho]

I don’t know if Herr Genssler would sell singles, but the E and A from this set would be a great solution for those people struggling to find strings to match to plain gut on the D and G.

I asked Gerold about buying just G and D and he said won't do that because he believes his strings should be used as a full set.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Both are great sounds. I kinda prefer the Golden spiral/Oliv/Spirocore thing. More Meat and Potatoes in my little headphones.

I do, too. Those who have been bitten by the plain gut bug (that sounds kind of gross) are hard to satisfy with other strings. I'm sure Gerold Genssler would point out that these particular Sonores strings are not meant for that market; I think they are a new and special thing, filling a niche of their own creation. I would love to try his other strings, the more pizz-friendly ones.

But in the meantime, the sound on the unamplified "Have You Met Miss Jones" on the Golden Spiral recording is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for...

 

[Adrian Cho]

So the question is whether his CORAX or CHAMBERS sets are better than your GS/Oliv/Spiro setup or my Gamut Lyon/Permanent setup. And indeed whether they are that much better given the difference in price. You're dead on that those of us on plain gut are hard to satisfy with anything else.

 

[Uncletoad]

But in the meantime, the sound on the unamplified "Have You Met Miss Jones" on the Golden Spiral recording is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for...

I was thinking the same thing when I was listening to it.

So the question is whether his CORAX or CHAMBERS sets are better than your GS/Oliv/Spiro setup or my Gamut Lyon/Permanent setup. And indeed whether they are that much better given the difference in price. You're dead on that those of us on plain gut are hard to satisfy with anything else.

Exactly. I don't see any reason to look for a substitute for plain gut. There isn't any. Like it or don't.

I'm dubious about light tension gut core wrapped strings no matter who makes them. I'll wager they come apart sooner than later no matter how much they cost; especially with hamfisted bashers like myself. It's one thing to draw a bow across a beautiful string, it's entirely another to pull on it like your cocking a bow to kill something.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

I'm dubious about light tension gut core wrapped strings no matter who makes them. I'll wager they come apart sooner than later no matter how much they cost; especially with hamfisted bashers like myself. It's one thing to draw a bow across a beautiful string, it's entirely another to pull on it like your cocking a bow to kill something.

He does guarantee them for two years, all of his strings, and I honestly don't know how that can be done. I think I can destroy any string given two years; Animas last me about fourteen months, Olivs make it about three, Eudoxas last about two weeks (I think my skin pH is freaky or something--plus I yank the heck out of them).

Assuming one of my favorite combinations, an eternal Spiro on the E and Olivs on the A, D, and G, that would cost me $310 every three months or $2480 over the course of two years. Even if I could get six months out of them, before distaster strikes, that would be $1200 worth of strings in two years. So I guess that Sonores, at around $790 for the two-year warranty period (that exchange rate just keeps getting worse), could be considered quite reasonable (at least by an Oliv fanatic with alien sweat).

I'm scaring myself. I'm going to go put my Spiro mittels back on.

(Actually, I really am. I have another gig this weekend at the same club, and I thought it might be nice to add an all-Spiro recording for comparison. Please shoot me.)

 

[Uncletoad]

I'm scaring myself. I'm going to go put my Spiro mittels back on.

(Actually, I really am. I have another gig this weekend at the same club, and I thought it might be nice to add an all-Spiro recording for comparison. Please shoot me.)

Yes, do that. It'll be fun.

We can all get on the Cockroach Spirocore rant again.

 

[Carl Johnson]

Sweet Jesus!! $790 a set. Let's see I could sell my GK to finance these... Velvet's are now a bargain.

Jeremy, what's you take on the warrantee; he sends you a replacement string if you break one, or a refund for the amount of the one string? What happens if you break a string after two years? Can you buy a replacement?

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Jeremy, what's you take on the warrantee; he sends you a replacement string if you break one, or a refund for the amount of the one string? What happens if you break a string after two years? Can you buy a replacement?

Those are good questions. I've been writing back and forth with Mr. Genssler, and I'll ask him to elaborate. I do know from what he has told me so far that this is a very small (one man) operation, and that he seems to make to strings to order (in other words, he doesn't have stock sitting on the shelves). He spends his time when not making strings being a jazz bassist, I gather.

PS Spiros are back on, at the bridge height I had for the guts...Ouch. I'm going to leave it that way for a gig tonight and see if I survive. Maybe I'll know how Drew Gress feels now (in the sense of having really high Spiro mittels, not in the sense of playing with an unerring ear for perfect accompaniment and musical clarity).

 

[Uncletoad]

What happens if you break a string after two years? Can you buy a replacement?

A two year warranty on a musical instrument string is unbelievably long. Just because we get years and years out of spirocores or flexocors doesn't mean we should expect to get that out of them or any string.

I'd be surprised if Pirastro or Thomastic would send you a new string if you had a two year old set on your bass and it all of a sudden broke or went false.

They wear out. Some quicker than others.

I think if an oliv or dominant breaks in less than 6 months that sucks, but I'm not asking the manufacturer to replace them with the expectation they should last that long or more. No other instrument I know of expects that out of their strings. Moreover I realize they are more expensive than just about any other string, but they should be. They are twice or more times bigger than anything else out there. They should be expensive.

Knowing that, I'm not going to put $800 in a set of bass strings no matter how amazing they are. The guy in the 3rd row doesn't know how much you paid for your strings and couldn't tell the difference anyhow. He just knows if you practiced or not.

Ruben had it right this string thing is silly. Buy Spirocores or Flexocors and hit the shed.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

hit the shed.

I heard that.

 

[Dr Rod]

he sends you a replacement string if you break one?

yes, I believe that's how it works (I am not Gerold so I can't say for sure, but I seem to remember this)

you'd probably be expected to send him the damaged string for his analysis (quality control)

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Ruben had it right this string thing is silly. Buy Spirocores or Flexocors and hit the shed.

Something about a pot and a kettle and blackness?

I agree, of course. Like David Gage said, if you find yourself thinking a lot about tweaking your set-up then you're not practicing enough. I have a jazz student who refuses, out of sheer laziness, to change the four-year old Helicore orchestra strings that came with his Kay. I can't get a sound out of it, but he smokes on it because all he does is play it all day.

 

[Uncletoad]

Something about a pot and a kettle and blackness?

Guilty as charged.

That's what makes it valid and not just some grumpy bastard on a soapbox (although I am that).

...it's also April 15th and I'm having a bad day.

 

[Carl Johnson]

You guys are too much; everyone knows new strings mean you don’t have to practice… jeez…

These strings do sound pretty neat, it they were the cost of regular strings I’d probably have tried to order a set already. But 7 bills and change, I’ll have to wait for the fever to pass.

On the other hand they are a deductable expense, amortized over at least two years… not the end of the world.

Damn, I’m going to throw an old set of animas and see how this settles out.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Gawd. At seven bills, I'd want the rest of the sheep, cut up and in my freezer, at the very least. Maybe a nice wool sweater to boot.

LOL... I'm just trying to picture the look on my wife's face if I tried to get these things past the budget.

PS.... I just realized that one of my favorite basses, a really nice Epiphone that I stupidly let go, cost me one hundred dollars less than a set of these strings. That bass was a screamin' good deal, but it still is kind of amazing to me.