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Double Bass Sonores Gut Strings by Gerold Genssler
- Thread starter Dr Rod
- Start date
Man-made core?
Human gut?
Or is it a steel core? (thus their lower price)
I think we can assume that "man-made core" would mean "synthetic core" (sort of like doms or BCs . . .)
Go to the "String Comparison Matrix" and you can hear the Sonores Corax. Here's the link too:
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A full set of Gamut Pistoy plains (unwound A & E) is about 815 U.S. dollars
. Buy American 
!
alright, so I got a trial set of Sonores strings, I have had them on for a few days, flatwound gut, the winding metal is a trade secret, quite thin for gut strings, impeccable workmanship, dealing with Gerold was very pleasant.
so, how do they sound?
well first of all I was truly amazed by the tuning stability, right from the get go they were extremely stable.
The pizz was huge, with a strong fundamental, the sound is dark and very much like what you would expect from a gut string. The tension is very low, and like Velvets, they are supposed to have the same tension load on all strings.
Gerold sent me the orchestral strings and he claims that the Corax are much louder in jazz pizz situations.
Arco was very nice and pleasant, round and dark, not as loud as the Thomastik Starks I had on, but again, I am not used to low tension strings. Unlike other gut strings the off-the-string strokes were not scratchy but nice and clear.
The only thing I did not like was that very much like solid core strings, they tend to "bend" the pitch when you play them very loud. A player with more experience playing this type of string might know how to play them without pushing them so much, especially considering that they can be played quite close to the bridge (they are low tension, flexible, dark sounding).
I believe these strings mark a strong step forward in gut string standards. Still, having said that, I don't think they are the right string for me/my bass.
so, how do they sound?
well first of all I was truly amazed by the tuning stability, right from the get go they were extremely stable.
The pizz was huge, with a strong fundamental, the sound is dark and very much like what you would expect from a gut string. The tension is very low, and like Velvets, they are supposed to have the same tension load on all strings.
Gerold sent me the orchestral strings and he claims that the Corax are much louder in jazz pizz situations.
Arco was very nice and pleasant, round and dark, not as loud as the Thomastik Starks I had on, but again, I am not used to low tension strings. Unlike other gut strings the off-the-string strokes were not scratchy but nice and clear.
The only thing I did not like was that very much like solid core strings, they tend to "bend" the pitch when you play them very loud. A player with more experience playing this type of string might know how to play them without pushing them so much, especially considering that they can be played quite close to the bridge (they are low tension, flexible, dark sounding).
I believe these strings mark a strong step forward in gut string standards. Still, having said that, I don't think they are the right string for me/my bass.
Good grief. About twice the price of a set of Olivs/Eudoxas which are already painful to buy.
Listening to them on the matrix (thanks CB3000 - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) it was hard to tell. They sound good but seemed thin compared to Olivs/Eudoxas (what I am using - and I love them), though I don't know if he matched recording levels (I would assume he did - maybe he mentions but I can't read the language).
They are not inducing G.A.S. for me at the moment.
Listening to them on the matrix (thanks CB3000 - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]) it was hard to tell. They sound good but seemed thin compared to Olivs/Eudoxas (what I am using - and I love them), though I don't know if he matched recording levels (I would assume he did - maybe he mentions but I can't read the language).
They are not inducing G.A.S. for me at the moment.
Yeah, I can't afford them either with the strong Euro, and as the US dollar weakens further every day, get ready for some serious sticker shock in all european products.
As far as the comparison matrix goes, I can't say anything about the Corax strings because I tried the orchestral set, which I found more versatile than olivs or eudoxas. With my limited experience with gut string playing, I found that Olivs/Eudoxas were very scratchy in short strokes, and not nearly as beautiful sounding as the Sonores.
Can you compare the Sonores to Olivs/Eudoxa if you were going to use them for jazz?
Thanks for the review.
You are most welcome.
Sorry, as far as jazz goes I could not tell you with any accuracy.
larry if these are the twine brand I've tried them on Christian Webers bass and they were some of the nicest strings I've ever used, they were like how the original velvets were, easy balance, great cutting sound easy to play pizz and arco. I've used and still use now Olivs for a D and G and the olivs don't compare, I'm really tempted to get a set but with the music I'm playing alot of now I need the spiros on the bottom, but they are great strings
Wow. Considering the amount of folks who swear by Olivs (at least the G), including myself - these must be good strings.
Perhaps when the dollar catches up to the Euro a bit...
Thanks.
I have been conversing with Gerold for a while now and am hoping to try out some of his strings soon. Unfortunately he has so many options and it has been confusing trying to out what work work for me. It seems that for my kind of old-school jazz playing plus arco, it would either be the CORAX or the CHAMBERS (which is apparently plain unvarnished gut G and D and flatwound A and E - available also in an extension). The CHAMBERS set doesn't however even appear on his pricelist so I'm still trying work it all out. The CORAX apparently has some kind of black covering but is entirely bowable.
The exchange rate now is definitely a problem...
The exchange rate now is definitely a problem...
BTW, that string matrix with audio samples at Herve Jeanne's site is FANTASTIC. What a great resource!
I would try the Corax, I have heard wonderful things about it. Plain gut, in my experience, does not bow as well.
I have no idea what the coating on the CORAX is like for comparison but I am used to bowing plain gut so that part doesn't worry me too much. It seems however that while Gerold says the CORAX is "the jazz string" that it doesn't really sound exactly like gut otherwise I presume Gerold would not have recommend his gut strings. His gut strings are however unvarnished because he thinks varnishing kills the sound. The plain gut I am used to bowing on is varnished.
I have just finished my trial of the set of SONORES that Dr. Rod had tested out, and I'll post a full review with sounds clips in a day or two. Let me just say that I enjoyed them very much, that I loved them for all kinds of pizz/jazz applications even though Gerold said they were meant for bowing and not so much for jazz, and that they did not resemble plain gut strings in any way. They were, in fact, brighter, clearer, and less "thumpy" than Olivs. Considering the quality of these strings, I would be interested in trying all of his other sets, including the one with plain gut on top. But more on this all later.
Here are some recordings to compare: all three were made at the same club, with the bass and the microphone in the same position and the recorder set at the same input level. On the first set of recordings, Im using the Sonores orchestra strings; on the second, Im using a Golden Spiral G and D, an Oliv A, and a Spirocore mittel E; on the third, I'm using a full set of Spirocore mittels. The bass is a ca.1930 7/8 Juzek/Wilfer. In all three cases, the Realist on the bass was plugged into an Acoustic Image Clarus 2R Series III and then straight into the house, with a Wizzy M-line on stage (but not in use). The recordings with the Sonores strings have no stage volume coming from the amp but there is a good bit of bass in the house, which was apparent onstage and which comes through in the recording; the recordings with the Golden Spirals/Oliv/Spirocore combination had no bass in the house or onstage, although on Footprints I do crank up the amp at some point (and its very apparent when that happens); with the full Spirocore set, there's no amplification on the first tune, a bit on the second, and a good amount on the third.
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OK, here’s my full review:
I had the opportunity to play on the same set of Sonores strings that Dr. Rod tried out (he sent them to me for a trial, and I will send them back to Gerold Genssler (trial sets of these strings are not given for keeps, as is the case with Pirastro or Thomastik, because of the small size of his operation); I had them on my bass for about a week. This particular model is the one meant for bowing in standard orchestra tuning, with a gut core wrapped in an undisclosed metal, but I used them entirely in the context of jazz pizz playing.
These strings are not quite like anything else I’ve ever played, but there are similarities to other strings. In feel and construction, they made me think very much of the Velvet Compas 180: the diameter is thinner than Animas, somewhat similar to Eudoxas; the windings are smooth but still slightly gritty (not glassy like a Pirastro steel string), but not at all in a displeasing way; and the tension is extremely low (I had the bridge on my bass at a height that was quite high for the Spirocores I had on there, and I had to crank it much higher to give the strings room to move and the right tension). It felt like the tension on each string was equal, as is the case with Velvets, and I know from prior experience that this property has a wonderful effect on a bass.
So the first thing that struck me was the low tension which, when combined with a good bridge height, made for a really pleasant playing experience under both hands. The bass I put them on is a serious chore to play (almost a 44” string length), but with these strings I never had to give any extra effort. The second thing I noticed, and which completely shocked me, was that these strings tuned right up to pitch and stayed in tune, without budging, for the duration of the trial. I’ve used plain guts, varnished guts, plastic-wrapped guts (Golden Spirals), metal-wrapped guts (Olivs and Eudoxas), and not-at-all guts (Obligatos, Dominants, Garbos, Animas, Compas 180 and 360, Innovations, and Kolstein Heritages), and they all had either some serious tuning instability or a long break-in period before they settled in. Not these.
As to the arco response: these are very well suited to being played with the bow. The E and A strings have a wonderful quality that I recollect from Eudoxa E and A, one in which the bow just kind of falls into the string and a beautiful sound is happening. It takes no effort to start the note, and yet there is still enough resistance to make playing off the string quite easy. The D string is a bit tighter (in a good way) and very dark like the lower strings; the G string is surprisingly bright, but in a “gritty” rather than “scratchy” way. The G actually sounds much more like a plain gut string under the bow than the other three strings (which sounds nothing at all like plain gut, except in the sense that there is a very nice fundamental to the tone), and yet it is as easy to play as a Flexocor. You can imagine that this is a strange feeling: the plain gut bowed sound, but with no difficulty in obtaining it and no danger of squeaks and howls. Some people will read this and think they’ve found the Holy Grail, while others, I know, will say “why would I want to sound like plain gut on the G?” I promise that it’s a good thing, and I had a friend who was a professional orchestra bassist bow on these strings and he loved them.
As to the pizzicato response: these strings are unlike any other wrapped gut string I’ve played. The maker stated that, due to the interlocked windings required for the good arco response, the pizz sound was somewhat boxy and more closed than his other strings intended for pizz, but I did not find this to be a negative quality. When I first put the strings on, I felt like Gary Peacock on “Spiritual Unity” or Miroslav Vitous on “Now He Sings Now He Sobs”—sort of a compressed but highly-articulate and sustaining pizz sound, and one that I’ve sought to no avail for a long time. The strings have a great deal of sustain, a strong fundamental, no hint of “whininess,” and are very easy to play. They do not have more than a shade of the qualities of plain gut that people seem to love, but there is a bit of the punch or snap present in the sound on the G string. They are not all thumpy, as Olivs can be on the D and A, or cumbersome, as Eudoxas can be; their darkness is one of clearness instead of one of obscurity.
The strings amplify well, which is certainly not the case with every string (as Evah Pirazzi owners may tell you). But my only complaint, and one I was surprised to have to make, is that the amplified sound made the strings come across as much more “electricky” than I would have thought. The same friend who bowed on the strings and loved them heard me play them live and commented that “now they sound just like any other string.” Of course, amplification is difficult with every string, and the fact that the great qualities of a string may be lost in translation by a pickup and an amplifier is not really a drawback—the feel of the strings and the bass to the player are important, and anytime a microphone is used (in the studio or live) or the bass is being played without any amplification the benefits will still be felt.
These are all of the thoughts I can come up with at the moment; I will add more later if I think of anything. I would say that my overall impression of the strings is very good; that I enjoyed playing on them, while thinking “well, they are nice, but they’re really just strings after all;” but then, when it came time to take them off, I realized that I did not want to do so and that I could not think of any other strings to put back on the bass that would make me as happy. I love my Olivs, but they fall apart so quickly under my fingers, and if these Sonores strings stay intact for up to two years that would be great.
Oh, one other thing: I don’t know if Herr Genssler would sell singles, but the E and A from this set would be a great solution for those people struggling to find strings to match to plain gut on the D and G.
I had the opportunity to play on the same set of Sonores strings that Dr. Rod tried out (he sent them to me for a trial, and I will send them back to Gerold Genssler (trial sets of these strings are not given for keeps, as is the case with Pirastro or Thomastik, because of the small size of his operation); I had them on my bass for about a week. This particular model is the one meant for bowing in standard orchestra tuning, with a gut core wrapped in an undisclosed metal, but I used them entirely in the context of jazz pizz playing.
These strings are not quite like anything else I’ve ever played, but there are similarities to other strings. In feel and construction, they made me think very much of the Velvet Compas 180: the diameter is thinner than Animas, somewhat similar to Eudoxas; the windings are smooth but still slightly gritty (not glassy like a Pirastro steel string), but not at all in a displeasing way; and the tension is extremely low (I had the bridge on my bass at a height that was quite high for the Spirocores I had on there, and I had to crank it much higher to give the strings room to move and the right tension). It felt like the tension on each string was equal, as is the case with Velvets, and I know from prior experience that this property has a wonderful effect on a bass.
So the first thing that struck me was the low tension which, when combined with a good bridge height, made for a really pleasant playing experience under both hands. The bass I put them on is a serious chore to play (almost a 44” string length), but with these strings I never had to give any extra effort. The second thing I noticed, and which completely shocked me, was that these strings tuned right up to pitch and stayed in tune, without budging, for the duration of the trial. I’ve used plain guts, varnished guts, plastic-wrapped guts (Golden Spirals), metal-wrapped guts (Olivs and Eudoxas), and not-at-all guts (Obligatos, Dominants, Garbos, Animas, Compas 180 and 360, Innovations, and Kolstein Heritages), and they all had either some serious tuning instability or a long break-in period before they settled in. Not these.
As to the arco response: these are very well suited to being played with the bow. The E and A strings have a wonderful quality that I recollect from Eudoxa E and A, one in which the bow just kind of falls into the string and a beautiful sound is happening. It takes no effort to start the note, and yet there is still enough resistance to make playing off the string quite easy. The D string is a bit tighter (in a good way) and very dark like the lower strings; the G string is surprisingly bright, but in a “gritty” rather than “scratchy” way. The G actually sounds much more like a plain gut string under the bow than the other three strings (which sounds nothing at all like plain gut, except in the sense that there is a very nice fundamental to the tone), and yet it is as easy to play as a Flexocor. You can imagine that this is a strange feeling: the plain gut bowed sound, but with no difficulty in obtaining it and no danger of squeaks and howls. Some people will read this and think they’ve found the Holy Grail, while others, I know, will say “why would I want to sound like plain gut on the G?” I promise that it’s a good thing, and I had a friend who was a professional orchestra bassist bow on these strings and he loved them.
As to the pizzicato response: these strings are unlike any other wrapped gut string I’ve played. The maker stated that, due to the interlocked windings required for the good arco response, the pizz sound was somewhat boxy and more closed than his other strings intended for pizz, but I did not find this to be a negative quality. When I first put the strings on, I felt like Gary Peacock on “Spiritual Unity” or Miroslav Vitous on “Now He Sings Now He Sobs”—sort of a compressed but highly-articulate and sustaining pizz sound, and one that I’ve sought to no avail for a long time. The strings have a great deal of sustain, a strong fundamental, no hint of “whininess,” and are very easy to play. They do not have more than a shade of the qualities of plain gut that people seem to love, but there is a bit of the punch or snap present in the sound on the G string. They are not all thumpy, as Olivs can be on the D and A, or cumbersome, as Eudoxas can be; their darkness is one of clearness instead of one of obscurity.
The strings amplify well, which is certainly not the case with every string (as Evah Pirazzi owners may tell you). But my only complaint, and one I was surprised to have to make, is that the amplified sound made the strings come across as much more “electricky” than I would have thought. The same friend who bowed on the strings and loved them heard me play them live and commented that “now they sound just like any other string.” Of course, amplification is difficult with every string, and the fact that the great qualities of a string may be lost in translation by a pickup and an amplifier is not really a drawback—the feel of the strings and the bass to the player are important, and anytime a microphone is used (in the studio or live) or the bass is being played without any amplification the benefits will still be felt.
These are all of the thoughts I can come up with at the moment; I will add more later if I think of anything. I would say that my overall impression of the strings is very good; that I enjoyed playing on them, while thinking “well, they are nice, but they’re really just strings after all;” but then, when it came time to take them off, I realized that I did not want to do so and that I could not think of any other strings to put back on the bass that would make me as happy. I love my Olivs, but they fall apart so quickly under my fingers, and if these Sonores strings stay intact for up to two years that would be great.
Oh, one other thing: I don’t know if Herr Genssler would sell singles, but the E and A from this set would be a great solution for those people struggling to find strings to match to plain gut on the D and G.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
.....i know exactly what you mean. Just when I was reaching for the 5 year old Golden Spirals in my drawer, this thread pops up. I guess it's more about the journey then the destination. I'm resigned to change.
