Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3

[Adamixoye]

The Nemesis is a bit of a different beast in that its audio processing circuit differs significantly from the rest of the One Series. Currently, it looks like the Nemesis will be using all of its available processing power to implement the delay algorithm and it will not have enough power remaining to implement a parametric EQ.

The L.A. Lady and Kingmaker will have noise gates implemented in them. As it currently stands, the other products will not have noise gates since their processing power is being almost fully utilized by the effects and EQ.

Okay. That's disappointing but understandable (#firstworldproblems). One more follow-up on the Nemesis, you say no parametric EQ, I'm assuming no HPF either?

If I understand correctly, that would look like this:
View attachment 593817
Does that match your idea? You're basically selecting either A or X, but never both at the same time.

I can say it's not something we had planned on supporting, but I think it might be possible. I will discuss it with my fellow engineers!

Yes, that's exactly what I was talking about. Would work great for modulation and dirt, as well as other combinations.

 

[TheSleeve]

One more follow-up on the Nemesis, you say no parametric EQ, I'm assuming no HPF either?

These won't exist as a post-effect EQ, but the Nemesis indeed has some filters immediately in front of the delay line: a Lowpass, a Highpass, and a diffuser, all of which can be set independently.

To use the Nemesis as a processor without the delay, just set the delay time to its minimum value (under one millisecond) and the mix to full-wet.

 

[gastric]

To use the Nemesis as a processor without the delay, just set the delay time to its minimum value (under one millisecond) and the mix to full-wet.

Looking forward to hearing soundclips soloing Degrade via Voice=Degrade, Delay=Min

Or as a stereo spreader using some short 7-14ms delay and the stereo processing capabilities.

 

[Adamixoye]

These won't exist as a post-effect EQ, but the Nemesis indeed has some filters immediately in front of the delay line: a Lowpass, a Highpass, and a diffuser, all of which can be set independently.

To use the Nemesis as a processor without the delay, just set the delay time to its minimum value (under one millisecond) and the mix to full-wet.

Okay, so I come up with artificial, nit-picky reasons like "no noise gate" to not need this and then BAM you say something like this and I'm all:

Looking forward to hearing soundclips soloing Degrade via Voice=Degrade, Delay=Min

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

 

[Nic.]

These won't exist as a post-effect EQ, but the Nemesis indeed has some filters immediately in front of the delay line: a Lowpass, a Highpass, and a diffuser, all of which can be set independently.

To use the Nemesis as a processor without the delay, just set the delay time to its minimum value (under one millisecond) and the mix to full-wet.

Sweeeeeet. And released after July? Is there an updated price yet?

Also, is there a list of the processors on tap, and are there any minimum processing times for any? For example, I imagine the octave up and reverse delay processors probably can't be used with the minimum delay time value, I expect the octave up needs a bit of time to process.

 

[thabassmon]

Hi I found this in the description of the Aftershock

"Link the AfterShock to the Neuro App and access its extended equalization capabilities as well as Source Audio’s library of bonus bass overdrive, fuzz, and distortion algorithms"

Is there a list somewhere of this library?
Does it include the Multiwave Algorithms?
Is there a limit to the amount of algos loaded into the pedal? (Poor grammer)

Thanks

 

[Adamixoye]

Hi I found this in the description of the Aftershock

"Link the AfterShock to the Neuro App and access its extended equalization capabilities as well as Source Audio’s library of bonus bass overdrive, fuzz, and distortion algorithms"

Is there a list somewhere of this library?
Does it include the Multiwave Algorithms?
Is there a limit to the amount of algos loaded into the pedal? (Poor grammer)

Thanks

I'm actually guessing that just means that you have the three accessible from the face of the pedal, and then the Neuro app gives you all the other types you get with the OFD.

 

[TheSleeve]

"Link the AfterShock to the Neuro App and access its extended equalization capabilities as well as Source Audio’s library of bonus bass overdrive, fuzz, and distortion algorithms"

Is there a list somewhere of this library?

At the time of release, all 12 algorithms from the Bass OFD will be available on the Aftershock (accessible via the Neuro app): Tube Drive, Smooth Tube, Power State, Crunch Tube, TS9000, Big Pi, El Raton, Fuzz Facade, Bender, Metal, Octave Fuzz, Gated Fuzz (although they have been updated a bit for the new hardware). In the future, we will potentially be able to release new algorithms for the Aftershock as well.

Does it include the Multiwave Algorithms?

The multiwave is a very different type of processing - its algorithms will not be available in the Aftershock.

Is there a limit to the amount of algos loaded into the pedal? (Poor grammer)

You can load in one algorithm per each switch position - there are 3 switch positions.

Using the Hub, you can save the algorithm type in your individual scenes, so there is really no limit to the number of algorithms available when the Hub is present.

 

[thabassmon]

Damn that was a quick reply. WOW.

Ok, I was hoping on the Multiwave stuff, I dig it's synthyness. But no reason not to have both right especially since that pedal definitely has so much awesomeness going on.

I also saw the MXR hub demo.

Can you guys make my EHX Ring Thing and Talking Machine Hub compatible? Please.

I plan on using the Boss ES8, Source Audio Reflex and Hub to control a full midi board.

 

[TheSleeve]

I also saw the MXR hub demo.

Can you guys make my EHX Ring Thing and Talking Machine Hub compatible?

The Neuro Module project is still in the prototype stage of development, but we're working with third party analog effect makers to get the Neuro Module integrated into future versions of their products. Due to the complexity involved with integrating the Neuro Module into analog circuits, it's not suitable as a Do-It-Yourself mod, so we're only going to be working directly with manufacturers for the time being. (That could change in the future... we shall see!)

 

[thabassmon]

Thank you for that. I am still excited about it though, the shear possibilities.

 

[Adamixoye]

Thank you for that. I am still excited about it though, the shear possibilities.

I assume you mean "sheer possibilities"...great name for a salon, though!

 

[Nic.]

The Neuro Module project is still in the prototype stage of development, but we're working with third party analog effect makers to get the Neuro Module integrated into future versions of their products. Due to the complexity involved with integrating the Neuro Module into analog circuits, it's not suitable as a Do-It-Yourself mod, so we're only going to be working directly with manufacturers for the time being. (That could change in the future... we shall see!)

So most of the neuro module work will be done on the manufacturer's side? Would you consider providing a service where people can ship their existing pedals to you guys, you mod in the neuro module for some fee, and send it back?

 

[kleinenenten]

So, I ordered the BEF used from GC two days ago. Its status is still "Approved Order". Any idea what that means? Can't find it on their site under any search I could think of. Never had trouble with GC used before...

 

[Adamixoye]

So most of the neuro module work will be done on the manufacturer's side? Would you consider providing a service where people can ship their existing pedals to you guys, you mod in the neuro module for some fee, and send it back?

Just reading between the lines here, I feel like the Neuro Module stuff we've seen so far is more of a proof of concept and this is going to be a VERY slow roll out. I think choosing a major manufacturer like MXR with relatively simple pedals was very purposeful (I remember someone saying that even the MXR pedals were difficult to do), and I doubt we're seeing these in our favorite boutique brands any time in 2015. Another point, who is going to write the software to handle all of these different pedals?

Just my underinformed opinion. I would love to be proven wrong.

 

[Nic.]

Was exporting my scenes to share by request, and I realized there's two problems I want to highlight. Do note that I'm still running on the older version of the firmware, after seeing all the potential problems a few weeks back I don't dare to update until after my band's important audition this weekend. Also, I don't know if the new firmware will work with the MWBD2 morphing loophole I worked out last time.

My Hub Manager is on 1.11
OFd and MWBD on FW 3, Manta on FW 6.

Okay so the two issues:

-----

First isn't really a problem, more like a question: Is there an easy way to copy settings from one pedal to another? I ask this because I'm using a guitar OFD instead of a bass OFD, but I gather that most people using these pedals would be using the bass OFD instead. Is there a way to directly transfer the scenes from one pedal to another equivalent pedal? I expect this will become a pressing issue when the One series comes out - I'd certainly like an easy way to send my OFD settings to the Aftershock.

Right now what I just did is to open the scenes as text files, and copy and paste the pedal header to each one. So that would be the part that starts off with "<soundblox_preset>"..... up to the part that says "</mix>". I need to change the mix part too since all the parameters between the guitar and bass OFD are identical except that you have mix instead of shape for the bass OFD. It appears to work, when I open it in the Hub Manager it does show the bass OFD without glitching, but I can't really test and confirm it without a bass OFD pedal. Also I might have put in some wrong drive settings since I copied and pasted the same drive parameter to all the scenes (it's between the start of the code and the mix or shape parameter) and manually filled it back in.

Would be nice if there was an easy way to just transfer settings. Perhaps a set of 'equivalent' pedals can be defined, and the settings between them can be shifted to one another, with any different parameters set to default settings (and a small warning message popup notifying users that these parameters won't be changed). Off the top of my head, I'd think the following can be done:

Guitar/bass OFD/LA Lady/Aftershock/Kingmaker
Guitar/bass multiwave distortion
Manta/Stingray
Orbital/Lunar/Mercury/Gemini

Anyway, here are my scenes. I've put it into Google Drive this time instead of Dropbox since my Dropbox extra space expired and I can't upload anything to dropbox anymore ;^;
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The physical pedal order is OFD -> MWBD2 -> Manta. If you have a bass OFD, please do give this a try and let me know if my re-coded guitarOFD -> bassOFD works! You may find you might need to do some substantial tweaks too, btw. I've found that my favourite sounds are very fine-tuned to my fretless basses, and some don't sound as good with fretted stuff.

-----

Okay second issue is a legit problem. Is there any good way to import pedal settings into the Hub?

One thing I've always disliked is that when you change settings on the Hub Manager, the pedal settings automatically change.... however, when you change settings on the pedal, it isn't reflected in the Hub Manager.

I've always thought that if you create settings on your pedalboard, then press and hold the button on the Hub to save the scene, if you open it up in Hub Manager you'll be able to see that scene with all the settings.

However, I've just discovered that isn't the case. This is what I did:

1) I used my MIDI Mouse to go to a channel where I have not saved a scene before. Then, I fiddle with my pedals and press and hold the scan devices button to save scene. Subsequently, I went to that channel in the Hub Manager and found that there was no scene saved there. Btw, here I'm using "channel" to describe the slot where it's saved in the Hub Manager, for example the first scene would be in Channel 1 and can be called up using MIDI CC 00, the second scene in Channel 2, etc.

2) I thought perhaps I needed to define the scene first. So I created a new scene with the pedals on my board using the Hub Manager. While doing so, I see my board automatically change to reflect what I have in the Hub Manager. Let's call this Scene A for reference. I then create the scene I want using my pedals and press hold the scan devices button to save scene. Let's call this Scene B. Now, Scene A is still shown in my Hub Manager. If I go to another channel in the hub manager, then go back to that channel, it still shows Scene A instead of Scene B. If I close and open Hub Manager or power down and turn on my board, it still shows Scene A... iirc. Okay this is the weird part. Although Hub Manager will show Scene A instead of Scene B, and whenever I select that channel in the Hub Manager, it'll load Scene A onto my board... if I go to that scene using my MIDI mouse, it goes to Scene B. That's weird!

3) I tried to export all scenes from my Hub, and then import it back, to see what happens. I was guessing maybe my Hub has one set of scenes, while my Hub Manager has another set of scenes. In theory, export from Hub should be saving from the Hub rather than from the Manager, so exporting and then importing should solve this problem. However...

I still have the same result as #2: in the Hub Manager, it still shows Scene A, and loading that in Hub Manager automatically puts my board in Scene A. But sending that MIDI CC by my MIDI Mouse gives me Scene B. I don't understand! Does the Hub have two separate memory banks or something?

Can anyone verify if this is still the case for updated versions of the Hub manager software and/or individual pedal firmwares?

Basically I just want an easy way to export out the pedal settings, since I found my filter sound manually on the pedal itself and not on the Hub Manager. I really want to make a backup version of this filter since it's really important to my sound, but I'm not sure how accurate the turn-knob-until-it-flashes-rapidly method is...

 

[Nic.]

Just reading between the lines here, I feel like the Neuro Module stuff we've seen so far is more of a proof of concept and this is going to be a VERY slow roll out. I think choosing a major manufacturer like MXR with relatively simple pedals was very purposeful (I remember someone saying that even the MXR pedals were difficult to do), and I doubt we're seeing these in our favorite boutique brands any time in 2015. Another point, who is going to write the software to handle all of these different pedals?

Just my underinformed opinion. I would love to be proven wrong.

I recall the SA guys saying that it was difficult to even do it with a simple pedal. I'm quite curious about the difficulties involved, though. I assumed it's just a set of digitally-controlled knobs and switches that replace the analog knobs and switches, and the rest of the pedal circuitry remains the same. So I'd expect the software would be quite similar - basically you'll have a set of knobs (Knob 1, Knob 2, Knob 3..., Switch 1, Footswitch) and each knob has a range (so Knobs run from 0-255, switches run from 1-2-3, footswitch is 1 or 0). And to make it user friendly, users can rename the knobs and the pedal itself in the Hub Manager. Underinformed opinion here too, but I can't imagine what other difficulties there would be other than perhaps how to get enough power to run the digital knobs and/or how to fit the presumably larger knobs into the same package - so I'd really like to find out more about the process.

 

[Adamixoye]

I recall the SA guys saying that it was difficult to even do it with a simple pedal. I'm quite curious about the difficulties involved, though. I assumed it's just a set of digitally-controlled knobs and switches that replace the analog knobs and switches, and the rest of the pedal circuitry remains the same. So I'd expect the software would be quite similar - basically you'll have a set of knobs (Knob 1, Knob 2, Knob 3..., Switch 1, Footswitch) and each knob has a range (so Knobs run from 0-255, switches run from 1-2-3, footswitch is 1 or 0). And to make it user friendly, users can rename the knobs and the pedal itself in the Hub Manager. Underinformed opinion here too, but I can't imagine what other difficulties there would be other than perhaps how to get enough power to run the digital knobs and/or how to fit the presumably larger knobs into the same package - so I'd really like to find out more about the process.

More underinformed speculation...even if you have a template and allow the user to rename knobs, it would still have to recognize the total number of parameters/switches, etc., and it would need to know the ranges of each knob (for different pots, etc.). So I think that would be difficult at some level.

 

[TheSleeve]

Just reading between the lines here, I feel like the Neuro Module stuff we've seen so far is more of a proof of concept and this is going to be a VERY slow roll out. I think choosing a major manufacturer like MXR with relatively simple pedals was very purposeful (I remember someone saying that even the MXR pedals were difficult to do), and I doubt we're seeing these in our favorite boutique brands any time in 2015. Another point, who is going to write the software to handle all of these different pedals?

Without going into too much detail, suffice it to say that our proof-of-concept work with the MXR pedals required a big investment of time and resources, but we learned a lot in the process.

The Neuro circuit is complex, consisting of a microcontroller, digipots, solid-state switches, power regulators - over 40 additional components were required for each MXR mod. Existing pots and switches in the effect, including the footswitch, need to be meticulously de-soldered and replaced with digitally-controlled versions that sit on a separate custom circuit board and are wired back in to the original circuit. Mounting the new circuit board inside the chassis and drilling a hole for the Neuro port can be challenging as well due to space limitations... and after all that, you still have to write the software!

This is why, for the moment, it makes the most sense for us to work directly with analog effect makers to design the Neuro module into their products from the beginning.

One way the community can help us is to write your favorite pedal makers and tell them that you're interested in seeing the Neuro interface in their future products. The more interest we can build, the better chance we have of getting more manufacturers on board in the future.

 

[HolmeBass]

Hey all, I have not been following this thread for a while, but I did get a Manta about 1/2 a year ago, and I love it! Here was my old sig:

#70- Holmebass - BEF & Hot Hand

So now I guess it should be:

#70- Holmebass - BEF, Manta, & Hot Hand 3