This is true? I was planning to use my iPad with Neuro and my SA-centric pedalboard.
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Source Audio Sorcerers Society (S.A.S.S) Part 3
- Thread starter gregmon79
- Start date
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
It is important to note that phones and the like are historically USB clients, and not USB hosts. Computers are hosts. Phones are clients. Pedals are clients. That is why we could not use phones and USB with our pedals until relatively recently. It was a bit of a breakthrough for us to connect phones to pedals via USB. We use a special mode known at HID to pull this off. I will note that Android was ahead of Apple in this regard. Doing this with the Hub is another matter entirely. The Hub communication is so much more complicated and demanding than just one pedal. We are doing our best to incorporate innovations in the world of USB into our pedals. There is no technology available to us just yet to allow for phones to connect to the Hub,
That's kind of an interesting thing. I think most people now use their phones the way people used to use computers. A little oversight in the programming probably a decade or more ago has created a limitation stopping people from using their tech in the way that makes the most sense now. But guitar pedals are so niche, who could even make the time or find the money to fix it?
most phones work as a USB host these days. I just plug in a powered usb C hub then usb audio interfaces, hard drives, and midi controllers work just fine. ymmv
Had a weird issue with the Aftershock today. Bypassed, sound was fine. Activated there was no sound at all. Turned it off and on, the same. Unplugged it, still had sound bypassed unplugged, plugged it back in still no sound while active. Switched the toggle switch back and forth and finally got sound.
Any insights into why this might be?
Any insights into why this might be?
But still I do buy the occasional dirt pedal, go figure. Source audio has included so many useful tools in the Aftershock and sibling pedals that it is possible to create just about anything.
There are a number of octave voiced engines, Start with "Bass Octave Fuzz" and tune from there, I was able to get the sound in my head that I chased for ages after owing a vintage Brassmaster as well as a well built GGG clone.
It depends on the maker and model of the phone especially with all the varied offerings using Android, even some phones you might expect to support the full range of USB functions don't for example my Motorola Power 5G still does not act in "host" capacity.
I think you may have posted this to the wrong thread
Can someone point me to some info on using the Hub and Neuro 3? I have four SA pedals, Hub and a MC3 controller. My confusion is about how to have a preset on a pedal get sent to a scene in the Hub in N3 as opposed to using the buttons on the Hub. Seems very confusing but it’s probably me. Also how do you delete a scene?
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
Yeah so what I’m looking for ideally would be a video about Neuro 3 that talks about integration with the hub as well as pedals. The only one I’ve found on the SA site is the intro to Neuro 3, which doesn’t mention the hub.
Gibs210
Commercial User
- Aug 31, 2019
- 850
- 875
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- Part time Tech Support for Source Audio effects
You need a separate usb connection to the pedals. Hub is older tech for us, and we made it work with the one series pedals even though it was designed for the last generation of our pedals that had no midi capability of their own, or usb connection. So it wasn’t designed to be able to directly access presets on the one series pedals.
Connect a separate usb to the pedal, load up a scene on the hub, then select the connected pedal, and click the read button in the app to update the scene with the preset you selected on the pedal or in neuro 3 via the pedal connection. Then make any adjustments and save the scene.
I also sent this in an email to SA support :
I started this thread on talkbass.com and wanted to pick it up with you.
“ Yeah so what I’m looking for ideally would be a video about Neuro 3 that talks about integration with the hub as well as pedals. The only one I’ve found on the SA site is the intro to Neuro 3, which doesn’t mention the hub.”
Reply:
“ You need a separate usb connection to the pedals. Hub is older tech for us, and we made it work with the one series pedals even though it was designed for the last generation of our pedals that had no midi capability of their own, or usb connection. So it wasn’t designed to be able to directly access presets on the one series pedals.”
“Connect a separate usb to the pedal, load up a scene on the hub, then select the connected pedal, and click the read button in the app to update the scene with the preset you selected on the pedal or in neuro 3 via the pedal connection. Then make any adjustments and save the scene.”
My follow up:
My four pedals plus the Hub are connected to my computer through a USB hub individually. I’m sensing that the Hub is not talking to Neuro.
When I save a scene using the buttons on the Hub it’s not being reflected in Neuro.
When I change a preset on a pedal and save it, pressing Read on that pedal in a scene doesn’t update the pedal preset.
If I try to create a new scene in the Hub in Neuro, the choice, Use Enabled Pedals does not work.
If I switch between scenes using my MIDI controller, the scene doesn’t change in Neuro.
These are all the various scenarios I’ve encountered so far since setting up my board with SA gear. Sort of difficult to describe in writing but I hope you understand at any rate. I’m sure there’s probably more inconsistencies that I have not mentioned but maybe what I’ve referenced here can get a dialog started to help me understand the limitations of my setup.
Reply from SA:
We are still working out some issues with neuro hub and neuro 3, the app is not going to update scenes when using a midi controller to change it, you’ll need to select scenes in the app for that. But things like the read button and creating scenes with connected pedals will be addressed in the next update for neuro 3.
Me:
FYI for anyone else who has experienced similar issues.
Last edited:
I run into problems like this too, like when usb AND the hub are active the UI in Neuro starts to get pretty wild. Using Neuro 2 instead fixes most of it so I just stay there. I haven't yet loaded up N3 w/o giving up and going back to N2. It'd be nice to have a guide to decode the USB communication for rolling our own editors bc I don't need Soundcheck but I do need editor software that works properly and UI elements that show correct values.
@rsmith601 With all of the limitations of the current hub, is there a next generation hub in the works that will improve functionality with Neuro 3 and the newest SA pedals?
rsmith601
Commercial User
- Apr 14, 2009
- 4,461
- 8,356
- Disclosures
- CEO and Co-Founder, Source Audio
We are continuing to make investments and improvements in N3's support of the Hub. It has not been up to my ideal standards. One thing to keep in mind. Having a direct USB connection to a pedal is always going to be better than going USB to the Hub and then TRRS from Hub to pedal. USB is a complex modern interface standard. TRRS is much simpler.
So perhaps a next generation hub/interface that uses USB? Providing all of the great features around scene management while allowing a simplified single connection to phone or computer when working with Neuro 3. Perhaps even sharing scene presets in Neuro?
My frustration with the current Hub/Neuro interface is that the scenes set up in the Hub don’t sync with those in the app. I’m switching between scenes with MIDI PC increment/decrement messages, but that only applies to the scenes in the Hub, which I have no visual for and frankly don’t know where they exist. It makes no sense that the scenes in the Hub and the app aren’t one and the same, and that MIDI commands can’t talk to the app. Here’s my understanding of the status on this from SA:
Reply from SA:
We are still working out some issues with neuro hub and neuro 3, the app is not going to update scenes when using a midi controller to change it, you’ll need to select scenes in the app for that.
Reply from SA:
We are still working out some issues with neuro hub and neuro 3, the app is not going to update scenes when using a midi controller to change it, you’ll need to select scenes in the app for that.
