Speaker cab issue

[H Nighttrain]

I've got an old Eden D212XLT that sounds pretty nice at low and even med volume, but kinda nasty when it is pushed to a louder volume, but still within the volume I think it should be capable of producing. It's not a pronounced ugliness but one can definitely hear it. So it sounds distorted but only at higher volume.

I base this on comparison with other, similar cabs that do not distort at the same high amp settings - an Eden D210MBX and my newer Revsound 212.

Moreover, it sounds like it's the top speaker that has an issue, but as you might imagine it's really hard to tell for sure.

How can I know for sure which speaker is distorting at higher volume? That is, is it safe to remove one speaker to check out the other, and the vice versa? Do I need to install the disconnected speaker in the box so that the effective port size isn't increased by a large factor? It is a 4 ohm cab, each speaker is 8 ohms. Thanks.

 

[Redbrangus]

Disconnecting one at a time might help you isolate the problem, but you do need to leave the disconnected speaker installed -- that gaping hole (of a removed speaker) would endanger the remaining driver if you drove it very hard. Also, if the two drivers share the same air space, which I suspect they do, don't be surprised if the disconnected driver still seems to make some noise. If you're using a tube amp for the test, set the output impedance to 8-ohms if possible -- that's not an issue if you use a solid-state amp.

 

[Nighttrain1127]

How much are you pushing this cab? And how did you determine how loud it should get or how much power it should take? And how do you know how much power you are feeding it?

 

[JimChjones]

Disconnecting one speaker at serious volume doesn't sound at all like a good idea unless they are in separate isolated spaces. Otherwise, even if you remove the other driver and blank off the hole, you'll be changing the cabinet behaviour spectacularly.

I think I'd start by ultra close miking both drivers and recording the output into a DAW, both to listen to the sound of each driver and to compare the waveforms, but I imagine the pros here can suggest a better option.

 

[TransylvaniaE]

Sounds like you already figured it out.

It's probably the top speaker.

Hard to tell on the internet of course.

Actual physical damage can sometimes be seen.

You can have, loose screws on the speaker.
The center dust cab can have glue start to fail n rattle.
Wires can hang and rattle against the back
Of the cone.

You can push on the cones to see
If one has obvious rubbing or slight rubbing.

Obviously it's not a junky cab.
But I've had junky cabs with speakers sounding ugly.
I just applied more n more power till
One blew.
That's the bad one .....lol

 

[agedhorse]

Can you post pictures or the front of each driver?

 

[H Nighttrain]

Thanks for the replies folks, I'll respond later on when I have some time. No rush, my next gig isn't until...

 

[Redbrangus]

Can you post pictures or the front of each driver?

Are you thinking a bad surround?

 

[agedhorse]

Are you thinking a bad surround?

Yes, or damage at the cone-surround interface.

 

[bumperbass]

Check for wrinkles in the cones. I've seen this before with Eden cabs.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I've got an old Eden D212XLT that sounds pretty nice at low and even med volume, but kinda nasty when it is pushed to a louder volume, but still within the volume I think it should be capable of producing. It's not a pronounced ugliness but one can definitely hear it. So it sounds distorted but only at higher volume.

I base this on comparison with other, similar cabs that do not distort at the same high amp settings - an Eden D210MBX and my newer Revsound 212.

Moreover, it sounds like it's the top speaker that has an issue, but as you might imagine it's really hard to tell for sure.

How can I know for sure which speaker is distorting at higher volume? That is, is it safe to remove one speaker to check out the other, and the vice versa? Do I need to install the disconnected speaker in the box so that the effective port size isn't increased by a large factor? It is a 4 ohm cab, each speaker is 8 ohms. Thanks.

The Eden D212XLT will take up to 400 -watts rms and still sound great. You have a problem.

Before you remove any speakers, or disconnect any speakers, remove the grill and inspect the speakers. If you find any creases in the speaker cone, that speaker needs to be replaced or re-coned. If you can't find any creases in the speaker cone then spread you fingers out with each finger extended and place them on the cone of the speaker with the dust cap under but not touching the palm of your hand. Now gently push it in and let it come back out a few times. It should move easily back and forth. If it feels scratchy or catches slightly, then you have voice coil damage and you need to replace or re-cone that speaker.

That's actually a great sounding cab that won't sound bad unless you are either pushing too many watts into it, which will blow the speaker, or it's already a damaged speaker. What amp are you using to drive it and what's it capable of delivering into 4 ohms? Since it's a 4 ohm cab, then your amp is capable of sending all the power it can send into a 4 ohm load. A mismatch of more than about 100-watts more than the cab can handle makes it easy to push it too far. I ran some 300-watt Eden EX112 cabs for about a year with my amp capable of putting 400-watts into each one without a problem because I didn't turn the amp up enough to be a problem. They were plenty loud enough for the medium-sized venues where I used them with my power set around 10 o'clock on my 800-watt amp

The Eden cabs are very clear in sound and if you are distressing the cab it will start making the characteristic farting sounds that speakers make right before they blow. First step if you hear that is to drop the bass EQ of your amp to flat or lower than flat if it's already set at flat. If that doesn't immediately cure it you MUST drop the master of your amp or you will blow those speakers. So if you ever hear that don't wait until the end of the song to fix it...that will be too late.

Check those speakers for creases and burnt voice coils before you physically remove any speakers from the cab.

You know, one other thing that might be happening...and it's a long shot. We had a fellow on the Eden forum years ago trying to tack down a sort of buzz that wasn't there at low volume but was at higher volume. It was actually a lead to the speaker that was too long and when the speaker moved enough it vibrated against the lead. As soon as he secured it out of the way, the problem disappeared. Never seen it before or since but, that might be happening if the speakers pass the crease and voice coil testing. I could show you a picture of it, but that disappeared along with all the other great forum info when Marshall just shut off the forum one day. No resentment at all there (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, you know what I mean?), but was much easier to show than describe. Was just too much slack in the lead.

 

[H Nighttrain]

I regret to say that the cause of this issue is almost certainly operator error. The last time I used it was at a large outdoor show, big, loud stage, guitar player using a stereo pair of amps... After a quick soundcheck we started the first song and of course I couldn't hear myself at all, so up went the master knob. That was okay for a while, but as time went on I pushed it up one, maybe two clicks more. I don't remember but knowing me I probably backed off the bass knob a couple clicks, too, sacrificing tone for volume, and at some point it sounded nastier than just poor eq. WT550, so more power available than the cab is rated for. All in all, the typical recipe for failure.

The cab and amp have sat unused since then, or at least til I saw an ad from someone selling 12" Eden drivers in the classifieds here. I hooked up the 550 to the 212 and... no sound! So there's a major problem with the amp now, that'll be my next thread.

I then hooked up the 212 cab to my WT330, and observed the result I posted in the first message here, namely that it sounds fine (gain at 1:00, passive jazz bass not quite getting the little LED to light up on the strongest notes; EQ flat) up to about noon on the master volume knob, but pushing it to about 1:00 I notice the distortion, esp on the 7th fret A on the D string. Those same amp settings into my 4 ohm Revsound 212 do not sound distorted, nor into my 2 ohm D210MBX. That second config is not the same, I know, just another scenario leading me to conclude that the Eden 212 is not right. All three of these cabs have a similar sensitivity rating.

So tonight I'll take off the grill, visually inspect the speakers for creases/surround issues/dust cap anomalies, and snap pics for y'all. If nothing seems amiss, I might get out the screwdriver and see if there's something like a lead wire causing mischief.

Another very important thing that I have yet to mention - I bought this cab used, and when I got it one of the drivers was clearly blown, I think the same top speaker. So I had it reconed and it has worked fine, in limited use, until that last time. In my mind I can't help but think that one driver might just be a poor component. By limited use I mean I used the cab on less than a dozen gigs over several years - it's never been part of my main rig, sounds great but not as easy to move as the 210.

 

[agedhorse]

If the cabinet was driven beyond the capabilities of the drivers, nothing else really matters when the drivers are damaged. Rarely is is a single driver.