Speaker Recommendations/Traynor Mods?

[scrappykraken]

Hey guys,

Adding a YBA4 combo to the stable for me to use for recording/practice in my room.

I’m looking for a good speaker to upgrade the marsland. It seems to be a “sealed back” for what it’s worth.

I’m looking for classic tones - my favorite tone is the great, punchy p bass tone on tons of classic punk rock and rock records. I know that’s likely DI or an SVT sitting on a fridge. I know that’s likely will be impossible to replicate but getting in the ballpark is good enough for me.

I’m also curious about any mods to the YBa that could make it better for Bass - anything that might scoot it towards sounding a little more like an ampeg?

I usually play a p with flats or a 4003 with roto rounds.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[agedhorse]

Don’t you think Yorkville would have included any beneficial improvements in their am as they were designing it? After all, they know their products better than anyone.

 

[scrappykraken]

Don’t you think Yorkville would have included any beneficial improvements in their am as they were designing it? After all, they know their products better than anyone.

I think at the time and within their means, they did. But that was a long time ago.

I think most Traynor users can speak with confidence that well designed circuits or not, the stock speakers leave much to be desired regardless of using it for guitar or bass.

I’m not sentimental about keeping it original. I’d prefer seeing if anyone here might help me get it sounding a little closer to what I want whether through changing the circuit or adding a speaker with more muscle and “tone.”

 

[agedhorse]

With regard to the amp design, you are seriously under-estimating Yorkville’s capabilities and skills.

Yorkville designers are far more accomplished than some random internet experts.

There might be some updates to the speakers, but with the size and weight, is it worth putting some expensive drivers into an older, larger, heavier cabinet? IME, generally the answer is a big no.

 

[Redbrangus]

Dang, how many times does this need to be said? A bass speaker system is just that -- the speaker and the enclosure work together as a system. You can change out the driver with something theoretically ten times 'better', but you still might not achieve an improvement in performance if the enclosure isn't a good fit for that driver. If you don't know that, you'll be much better off just keeping the original, 'designed for it' driver. Figuring out a replacement driver isn't particularly difficult, but you need to understand what's going on with the enclosure and how it affects the performance of the driver contained within. At the very least, you'd need to know the internal volume of the cab, as well as the size and depth of the port and duct, presuming it's a ported enclosure. If it's not ported, i.e., a closed, or infinite baffle system, it's fairly easy to select a driver whose parameters accommodate a cab with that internal volume. If it's a ported enclosure, the calculation is a bit more difficult, but it is still something that can be accomplished if you understand how bass reflex speaker systems work. Without that data and knowledge, it would very much be a case of hit-or-miss.

There should be a 'sticky' that explains this to guitar players and others who want to 'upgrade' their speakers. It ain't a guitar cab -- you can't just stick a 'better' driver in it and expect that will produce an upgrade in performance.

 

[eniac]

Hey guys,

Adding a YBA4 combo to the stable for me to use for recording/practice in my room.

I’m looking for a good speaker to upgrade the marsland. It seems to be a “sealed back” for what it’s worth.

I’m looking for classic tones - my favorite tone is the great, punchy p bass tone on tons of classic punk rock and rock records. I know that’s likely DI or an SVT sitting on a fridge. I know that’s likely will be impossible to replicate but getting in the ballpark is good enough for me.

I’m also curious about any mods to the YBa that could make it better for Bass - anything that might scoot it towards sounding a little more like an ampeg?

I usually play a p with flats or a 4003 with roto rounds.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Like Redbrangus said, you're going to have to describe the cab (sealed, ported, and if ported, then by what means). You're also going to have to take internal measurements of everything he mentioned, and be precise about it. Then, if you don't want to learn how to use modeling software, you'll have to rely on someone else to choose a brand/model driver for you based on the measurements you took and the tone you're after. That time spent can often translate into "opportunity cost" for the person who does that for you. Eminence has some decent general recommendations online for many of their bass drivers. I've also heard people say US Speaker can recommend a suitable driver if you contact them with the measurement results, but I can not verify that.

There are other considerations as well, such as how much (if any) damping material is in the cab, and whether you'd need to change that. Another consideration is how thick the wood is. The 2x15 I had was light as a feather, suggesting that the whole cab would vibrate if decent replacement drivers were installed. It probably didn't matter back then with the stock drivers, but it certainly would now, at least with modern drivers that aren't junk.

If it were me, I wouldn't bother. Instead I'd sell the amp and buy something with a bit more science to the driver/enclosure combination.

 

[scrappykraken]

Dang, how many times does this need to be said? A bass speaker system is just that -- the speaker and the enclosure work together as a system. You can change out the driver with something theoretically ten times 'better', but you still might not achieve an improvement in performance if the enclosure isn't a good fit for that driver. If you don't know that, you'll be much better off just keeping the original, 'designed for it' driver. Figuring out a replacement driver isn't particularly difficult, but you need to understand what's going on with the enclosure and how it affects the performance of the driver contained within. At the very least, you'd need to know the internal volume of the cab, as well as the size and depth of the port and duct, presuming it's a ported enclosure. If it's not ported, i.e., a closed, or infinite baffle system, it's fairly easy to select a driver whose parameters accommodate a cab with that internal volume. If it's a ported enclosure, the calculation is a bit more difficult, but it is still something that can be accomplished if you understand how bass reflex speaker systems work. Without that data and knowledge, it would very much be a case of hit-or-miss.

There should be a 'sticky' that explains this to guitar players and others who want to 'upgrade' their speakers. It ain't a guitar cab -- you can't just stick a 'better' driver in it and expect that will produce an upgrade in performance.

I appreciate the depth of your reply. I did try searching this out on my own. I’ve had good experiences on this forum in the past so didn’t think I’d ruffle any feathers - oh well, haha. Sorry!

I enjoy the dig about guitar players - I am indeed a guitar player who is just trying to record my own bass for fun.

Like Redbrangus said, you're going to have to describe the cab (sealed, ported, and if ported, then by what means). You're also going to have to take internal measurements of everything he mentioned, and be precise about it. Then, if you don't want to learn how to use modeling software, you'll have to rely on someone else to choose a brand/model driver for you based on the measurements you took and the tone you're after. That time spent can often translate into "opportunity cost" for the person who does that for you. Eminence has some decent general recommendations online for many of their bass drivers. I've also heard people say US Speaker can recommend a suitable driver if you contact them with the measurement results, but I can not verify that.

There are other considerations as well, such as how much (if any) damping material is in the cab, and whether you'd need to change that. Another consideration is how thick the wood is. The 2x15 I had was light as a feather, suggesting that the whole cab would vibrate if decent replacement drivers were installed. It probably didn't matter back then with the stock drivers, but it certainly would now, at least with modern drivers that aren't junk.

If it were me, I wouldn't bother. Instead I'd sell the amp and buy something with a bit more science to the driver/enclosure combination.

Thank you for the depth of your reply. I had assumed (we know how that goes) someone might be familiar with the model from personal experience. It is indeed a sealed cab but I’ll need the measurements.

The stock speaker sounds very “tired” - I assumed (again!) even something basic or “vanilla” would be a good enough improvement. I know it’s a limited setup being a fifty watt tube amp. I was just curious about potential improvements - I know it’s not going to substitute for an svt/8x10 but even then maybe I’m just barking up the wrong tree.

I appreciate everyone’s time and apologize for the annoyance. I have much to learn about bass - and bass forum etiquette! Lol

Edit - spelling

 

[agedhorse]

There are few good choices for sealed speaker drivers.

 

[Roland GR 88]

Another option would be to remove the amp altogether and install it in a new shell. Mothball the cabinet and try your new head with a modern cab.
I’ve scavenged a couple of these this way over the years both because of putrid storage conditions and the resulting smells.
Both found new owners whom I didn’t know well so their success or failure is a mystery and both were woodworkers of sorts that were as intrigued by the shell idea as much as the amp. Neither amp was a YBA4.
Without the option to jump ch 1 into ch 2 you will find it hard to achieve the sounds you want so you may need to recalibrate or move on.
Good luck.

 

[Wasnex]

I learned to play through a blackface Fender Twin Reverb pushing a Traynor YC-810 Big-B cab. It was my brothers gear and he thought the Traynor was an awful guitar cab. He said I could use for bass, but to be careful. Years later I found out it was actually a bass cab .

The first rig I bought for myself was a new MTI era SVT and 810. I still had the YC-810 at the time. The Ampeg cab had fuller lows and was a bit more even. The Traynor had more treble extension and was more clear/articulate, however it had sort of a resonance\unevenness in the low mids that I actually liked.

The Ampeg 810 had four sealed chamber, each loaded with two 10s. The Traynor had one wide, but shallow chamber loaded with eight 10s (original Marsland). I don't believe there was any bracing in the Traynor cab and suspect the low mid resonance was related. I believe the combined internal volume of the four chambers in the Ampeg was bigger than the Traynor, which is probably a factor in the stronger lows.

I preferred the Traynor overall, but YMMV.

AFAIK there are not a lot of great choices for sealed 15" drivers. If the internal volume is sufficient you might consider turning it into a 210. AFAIK the output impedance of the YBA4 is 8 ohms, which could present a problem as many of the 10s designed for sealed cabs are 32 ohms. So you would need 4 drivers to present an 8 ohm load to the amp .

A pair of Eminence SC10-16 might be an option. You can download the specsheet and cab design doc from here:

10 inch Eminence Bass Guitar Replacement Speaker - Neo

This replacement speaker is optimized specifically for sealed bass cabinets, the ultra-lightweight Basslite SC10 takes the weight out and leaves in the performance. Featuring a 4 oz. neodymium magnet and 2 inch voice coil, this 10 inch replacement speaker is available in 16 and 32 ohms for your...

eminence.com

 

[Stylee Mousse]

Those Traynors are cool amps. We have a ygm guitar mate that is like a poor man’s ac-15/deluxe and I use a YBA1a mkII for a stage guitar amp.

The YBA is a great, fender tone stack amp for bass.

The marsland speakers are not loved by anyone as far as I. can tell

Is it a sealed cab? What dimensions?

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

Hey, glad you’re laying down some low end.
We are a friendly lot, but there are a few major difference between bass and guitar.
The biggest one is that bass frequencies are HUGE. It takes a lot of power to move a lot of low end, so we have to take physics into account when designing cabs.
Generally, a guitar cab is just an empty box, and you can put whatever you want in there and it’ll sound good. Because guitar speakers and cabs don’t need to move as much air as bass cabs, so you could have a Greenback on a coathanger and it’d still sound like a Greenback.

But because physics is not a forgiving lady, bass cabs get designed as complete systems.
Boxes get built around the specs of a specific speaker, and vice versa. Baffling, damping, and porting all change how the box works as a whole, and it’s easy to blow a speaker when it’s in the wrong box.

So Yorkville/Traynor likely used a specific speaker in that cab because it matched the dimensions and design intentions of the box.
It might have been an off-the-rack super common speaker, it might not.
If you pull the speaker, you can look up that model and see if someone makes something similar that’ll work in that box, or you can take measurements of the interior dimensions of the box then look for speakers that will work with it.

Speaker swaps aren’t impossible, as some might lead you to believe, but they can be a hassle and to many, due to the overall design requirements of the system, they aren’t worth it.
(And for the record, @agedhorse is the man and is pretty much never wrong. Or at least his employers at Mesa-Boogie think so.)

Hey guys,

Adding a YBA4 combo to the stable for me to use for recording/practice in my room.

I’m looking for a good speaker to upgrade the marsland. It seems to be a “sealed back” for what it’s worth.

I’m looking for classic tones - my favorite tone is the great, punchy p bass tone on tons of classic punk rock and rock records. I know that’s likely DI or an SVT sitting on a fridge. I know that’s likely will be impossible to replicate but getting in the ballpark is good enough for me.

I’m also curious about any mods to the YBa that could make it better for Bass - anything that might scoot it towards sounding a little more like an ampeg?

I usually play a p with flats or a 4003 with roto rounds.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

 

[Koshchei]

Huge Traynor fan here - if you're looking for a more modern tone without losing the tubes, try the YBA-100. They can be had for not much money used, and then grab a Traynor 2x10 or 1x15, depending on how bassy you like your bass.

It just sounds to me like you're not getting the sound you want, and (unfortunately) throwing parts at engineered acoustic systems that you don't understand isn't likely to get you there.

 

[scrappykraken]

There are few good choices for sealed speaker drivers.

Drat. Well I appreciate you weighing in, nonetheless.

I learned to play through a blackface Fender Twin Reverb pushing a Traynor YC-810 Big-B cab. It was my brothers gear and he thought the Traynor was an awful guitar cab. He said I could use for bass, but to be careful. Years later I found out it was actually a bass cab .

The first rig I bought for myself was a new MTI era SVT and 810. I still had the YC-810 at the time. The Ampeg cab had fuller lows and was a bit more even. The Traynor had more treble extension and was more clear/articulate, however it had sort of a resonance\unevenness in the low mids that I actually liked.

The Ampeg 810 had four sealed chamber, each loaded with two 10s. The Traynor had one wide, but shallow chamber loaded with eight 10s (original Marsland). I don't believe there was any bracing in the Traynor cab and suspect the low mid resonance was related. I believe the combined internal volume of the four chambers in the Ampeg was bigger than the Traynor, which is probably a factor in the stronger lows.

I preferred the Traynor overall, but YMMV.

AFAIK there are not a lot of great choices for sealed 15" drivers. If the internal volume is sufficient you might consider turning it into a 210. AFAIK the output impedance of the YBA4 is 8 ohms, which could present a problem as many of the 10s designed for sealed cabs are 32 ohms. So you would need 4 drivers to present an 8 ohm load to the amp .

A pair of Eminence SC10-16 might be an option. You can download the specsheet and cab design doc from here:

10 inch Eminence Bass Guitar Replacement Speaker - Neo

This replacement speaker is optimized specifically for sealed bass cabinets, the ultra-lightweight Basslite SC10 takes the weight out and leaves in the performance. Featuring a 4 oz. neodymium magnet and 2 inch voice coil, this 10 inch replacement speaker is available in 16 and 32 ohms for your...

eminence.com

I appreciate the recommendation!

Those Traynors are cool amps. We have a ygm guitar mate that is like a poor man’s ac-15/deluxe and I use a YBA1a mkII for a stage guitar amp.

The YBA is a great, fender tone stack amp for bass.

The marsland speakers are not loved by anyone as far as I. can tell

Is it a sealed cab? What dimensions?

Indeed. I had a YGM that was great at doing the Deluxe Reverb or Vox thing (somewhere in the middle and aside from a bright cap being snipped, I liked it stock).

I will need to figure out how to measure properly and get in there. I'll report back.

Hey, glad you’re laying down some low end.
We are a friendly lot, but there are a few major difference between bass and guitar.
The biggest one is that bass frequencies are HUGE. It takes a lot of power to move a lot of low end, so we have to take physics into account when designing cabs.
Generally, a guitar cab is just an empty box, and you can put whatever you want in there and it’ll sound good. Because guitar speakers and cabs don’t need to move as much air as bass cabs, so you could have a Greenback on a coathanger and it’d still sound like a Greenback.

But because physics is not a forgiving lady, bass cabs get designed as complete systems.
Boxes get built around the specs of a specific speaker, and vice versa. Baffling, damping, and porting all change how the box works as a whole, and it’s easy to blow a speaker when it’s in the wrong box.

So Yorkville/Traynor likely used a specific speaker in that cab because it matched the dimensions and design intentions of the box.
It might have been an off-the-rack super common speaker, it might not.
If you pull the speaker, you can look up that model and see if someone makes something similar that’ll work in that box, or you can take measurements of the interior dimensions of the box then look for speakers that will work with it.

Speaker swaps aren’t impossible, as some might lead you to believe, but they can be a hassle and to many, due to the overall design requirements of the system, they aren’t worth it.
(And for the record, @agedhorse is the man and is pretty much never wrong. Or at least his employers at Mesa-Boogie think so.)

Thank you much! I appreciate the depth of your reply. Totally makes sense, but certainly didn't occur to me. I was thinking something like the WGS 15 would at least be somewhat of an improvement but maybe not. I'll have to do a bit of measuring and report back.

Huge Traynor fan here - if you're looking for a more modern tone without losing the tubes, try the YBA-100. They can be had for not much money used, and then grab a Traynor 2x10 or 1x15, depending on how bassy you like your bass.

It just sounds to me like you're not getting the sound you want, and (unfortunately) throwing parts at engineered acoustic systems that you don't understand isn't likely to get you there.

I do enjoy the tube grind for sure - the speaker itself, just sounds tired, but not necessarily "bad." The amp just sounds like it wants to project a lot more. Maybe I will end up giving up and just committing to a traditional bass rig. The YBA4 was very cheap so I'm okay with throwing a little money/work at it to get it more in line with my needs. If the amp is performing as it should, I'm okay with that too.

I'll report back once I can get into the cab and do some measuring.

 

[scrappykraken]

Here's some info from the manual that came with the amp:

The original 15" 8 ohm speaker is rated for 100W with a 54 oz ferrite magnet. The amp rates RMS power 45W pre-clipping, 80W full-clipping. The closed-back cabinet has a volume of about 1.8 cu ft (23" x 17" x 8") with two circular 3.25" diameter ports on the front.

Does this help narrow anything down?

 

[agedhorse]

Yes, it’s NOT a sealed cabinet, it’s ported. Closed back is a term that comes from the guitar world.

You have more options if you provide the internal volume of the cabinet and the depth of the ports.

 

[Wasnex]

Here's some info from the manual that came with the amp:

The original 15" 8 ohm speaker is rated for 100W with a 54 oz ferrite magnet. The amp rates RMS power 45W pre-clipping, 80W full-clipping. The closed-back cabinet has a volume of about 1.8 cu ft (23" x 17" x 8") with two circular 3.25" diameter ports on the front.

Does this help narrow anything down?

I tells us it's not sealed.

Is 1.8 cu ft the internal volume? AFAIK that's still pretty small. How deep/long are the ports.

Might be interesting to model the Eminence 3015. I looked a the cab design docs for bunch of Eminence 15s, and the 3015 seemed to be the best choice for a small ported box.

Here is part of the model that caught my eye:

Here is the link to the doc: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0270/8665/1462/files/Kappalite_3015_cab.pdf

Slightly smaller box at 1.5 cu ft. Two 4" ports that are about 6.4" long.

Not great lows IMHO, but I didn't find anything better in the Eminence 15" cab design docs I reviewed.

 

[Daniel B5]

Did you reach out to Traynor / Yorkville to ask for suggestions for a comparable replacement speaker? Their customer support is quite well regarded.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

Thread 'Traynor YBA-4 combo conversion to head (YBA-1?)'

Aug 15, 2019

I bought a yba-4 combo a couple years ago on a lark from local seller. I am partial to tube amps. The combo is shockingly loud, so I had a master volume put in the back panel.
The tone is really unique, and has a distortion sound that is really cool.
The downside is that the combo is really awkward to move. The weight (which I can deal with) is a lot, but the form factor is what gets me. It’s tall and thin, so rolling it has to be done carefully or else it will catch something and tip, but carrying/lugging it with the 70s craptastic rubber handle is a drag. Lugging a b-15 is cake...

• whitelines
• traynor yba-1 yba-4
• Replies: 7
• Forum: Amps and Cabs [BG]

Someone did make a head from this combo - looks pretty cool. I'd try running the (apparently rca) speaker out into a real boy bass cab and see f you like what it does. U have a bub that has a proper bass cab?

Also - the YBA heads are considered great platforms for mods and start pretty close to the bassman/plexi circuit if it doesn’t work out for bass.

Oh yeah, I immediately replaced the HUGE value brite cap in my YBA with something sane. Those stock caps saddled traynors with a rep as shrill amps. They really aren’t

 

[rockear]

I tells us it's not sealed.

Is 1.8 cu ft the internal volume? AFAIK that's still pretty small. How deep/long are the ports.

Might be interesting to model the Eminence 3015. I looked a the cab design docs for bunch of Eminence 15s, and the 3015 seemed to be the best choice for a small ported box.

Here is part of the model that caught my eye:
View attachment 7346572
Here is the link to the doc: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0270/8665/1462/files/Kappalite_3015_cab.pdf

Slightly smaller box at 1.5 cu ft. Two 4" ports that are about 6.4" long.

Not great lows IMHO, but I didn't find anything better in the Eminence 15" cab design docs I reviewed.

Slightly smaller box at 1.5 cu ft. Two 4" ports that are about 6.4" long.

Not great lows IMHO, but I didn't find anything better in the Eminence 15" cab design docs I reviewed.
Click to expand...

I replaced a failed speaker in a Traynor TS-115 cab with a Kappalite 3015 and it sounds great to me. I've been running it under a TS-50b now for 11 years. I would say that it gets decently close to the P bass with rounds through an SVT "springy" sound that it sounds like the OP might be after. At a much lower volume of course.

That cab is bigger than OP's however. It's between what Eminence calls a Small and Medium ported cab in their specs.

The roll off of -6db @65hz is pretty high, but if you don't need those frequencies it's fine. I would be shocked if the original driver in these cabs digs that deep.

I would suggest that before buying anything @scrappykraken might want to find a way to plug their YBA4 into some modern speaker cabs and turn some knobs, to see whether the tone they're after lives inside that amp or not to begin with.