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Speakers suggestion for a 2x10" cab "5-strings bass" oriented

#22
Just a quick note about those excursion graphs on WinISD. They assume sine waves. In the real world no-one puts sine waves through speakers, even bass guitar notes are rich in harmonics. I find those graphs are useful for comparing speakers to each other, as in deciding which speakers will crap out first. But the numbers themselves aren't gospel. The actual wattage required to bring speakers to X-max with harmonically rich content is often twice that quoted by WinISD, or any software for that matter.
 
#23
washburn_it said:
I've made further simulations and I decided to go with 2 Legend BP102-4 and an Alpha 6 as mid considering that if it will be used standalone my amp head can supply 250 Watt @ 8 ohm then everything is "sized" for that value of input power.
Click to expand...

It should work out for ya nicely. When I designed mine, I kinda reverse-engineered a fEarful and tried to simulate the same response graph. Like I said, it wound up being a 5cu.ft. box tuned to 38Hz. Took an expert's advice on designing the crossover. The BP102 has a sizable low-midrange response dip, so I high-passed the Alpha 3rd order @400 Hz, and low passed the BP102's second order @700. Like what I hear so far, but the true test is to mingle it w/a real band situation.. BTW, the drivers are aligned vertically...
 
#24
To answer some of Washburn's ?'s... I specifically designed this cab to be a lower SPL option for rehearsal room and gigs where we can't turn it up... I have a BFM Omni 15TB (2-12"s) for everything else.. I use a 35Hz highpass filter in my preamp effects loop, this effectively keeps the drivers from going too far and wasting amp power.. I also run a Carvin DCM600. The BFM runs bridge mode, but I only use one side (about 125W) with this cab. The BP102 needs a large vented box (its actually better suited for a sealed box, but the rolloff starts in the first/second harmonic). You could go smaller than 5cu.ft. w/a pair of these, but if you are looking for a clean well-defined sound you might be disappointed..
 
#25
I built pretty much what you are thinking of building. I use it with a 5 string and it handles the harmonic of the low B just fine (I don't see the need for a bass cab to handle the low B fundamental...IMO).

I use two 4 ohm BP102's along with a 6" mid driver (don't laugh...they are actually 6" drivers out of my Bose 201 stereo cabs) and they work beautifully. They have a very Acme-esque tone to them and also require some power to really make them shine.

I have the top cab wired with a series/parallel switch for when I only use a single 210/6 at 2 ohms (I use only the one 210/6 for most gigs). I switch it to 8 ohms when paired up with the other 8 ohm 210/6 for larger outdoor gigs. Of course, thats just the BP102's wired up that way. The 6" drivers are 8 ohm each.

I use it with a Carvin BX1200 and use the bi-amp feature on the amp so there is no internal crossover in the cabs. I have complete control over the crossover point as well as the output of the BP102's and the 6" drivers separately. But an Alpha 6 would probably be ideal and crossed over about anywhere from 500Hz to 800Hz. The BP102's drop out from about 500Hz on up, despite the 2kHz spec. But with a 6.2mm xmax they are pretty good at handling the lows for a 10" speaker.

Link Removed
 
#26
dhomer:
I would like to have an easily transportable box so I limited the size for a total volume of about 60 liters (H 450 x W 600 x D 300 mm, external measures, 18 mm wall thickness).
Of course I know that such volume will affect the "deep" of the basses.
Box parameters are these:

Vb= 57, Fb= 40, F3= 62, ports No.=1, Dv=100 mm, Lv=160 mm

Sundogue:
you built two nice cabs, where did you find the protection grid? Did you build it by yourself? May I ask you the Vb and Fb of those cabs? (just for a simulation)

Some question about the mid driver: the Alpha6A, as suggested in the Eminence site, can be closed into a sealed box but also into a vented box.
Should I "close" it into a separated closed "volume" inside the "main" box? If this was not necessary, does the reflex port have some influence on it?
According with its specs the power rating is 100 Watt, since I will use it with an amp head that can supply 250 Watt @ 8 ohm and 400 Watt @ 4 ohm (if I would run it at max power of course), do I risk to burn it out even if crossed at 18 dB/octave?
How can I protect it?
Thanks, regards.

Roberto
 
#27
I know this is a bit off topic, but still related: Few 210 cabs available can handle a 5-string low B properly at high volume giving the response you are looking for... It's possible you could build one but there will always be trade offs to achieve the low end you are seeking (hence why they are not readily available already)

One of the few 210's I have experience with that is capable of what you are asking is the Eden XST210 (and there are others...) but I feel they have sacrificed a fair amount of the mid voicing and apparent volume of the XLT line in achieving it... different strokes for different folks I guess, but neither cab IMO provides a complete full range solution by itself
 
#28
Few 210 cabs available can handle a 5-string low B properly at high volume...
Click to expand...

with the last simulation that I've done resulted that with the above box parameters, it MAY be possible to have a Low B reproduced at 106 dB @ 250 Watt ("Custom Amplitude Response" graph) and there is still "room" to slightly increase the power up to 300 Watt being still within the XMax.
Of course this would be "fundamental" if I would play the Low B at full power all the time, in the "real world" it's different so if I would get close to those results I would be very satisfied !

Regards,

Roberto
 
#29
washburn_it said:
dhomer:
Sundogue:
you built two nice cabs, where did you find the protection grid? Did you build it by yourself? May I ask you the Vb and Fb of those cabs? (just for a simulation)

Some question about the mid driver: the Alpha6A, as suggested in the Eminence site, can be closed into a sealed box but also into a vented box.
Should I "close" it into a separated closed "volume" inside the "main" box? If this was not necessary, does the reflex port have some influence on it?
According with its specs the power rating is 100 Watt, since I will use it with an amp head that can supply 250 Watt @ 8 ohm and 400 Watt @ 4 ohm (if I would run it at max power of course), do I risk to burn it out even if crossed at 18 dB/octave?
How can I protect it?
Thanks, regards.

Roberto
Click to expand...

The cab volume is 3.6 cu. ft. for both cabs (each), and the tuning frequency is 44Hz with two 3" X 3" ports for one cab and the other has a tuning frequency of 50Hz and has one 4" X .75" port. Not much difference in tone or power handling. I played around with the cab volume and tuning frequency to take advantage of the maximum ability of the BP102's and their xmax limit.

Since I can adjust my crossover I set it anywhere from 500Hz to 800Hz. There isn't much noticeable difference in that range. I experimented with the right size sealed cab for the 6" mids, but the Alpha6A does not have a closed back so you must have a separate chamber for it or the woofers will blow it. I wouldn't bother with a vented chamber for the Alpha6A since it is just for mids and highs. Vented boxes are for better bass response, so I'd just make a sealed chamber within the cab for the Alpha6A.

My two 6" drivers can only handle 100 watts max, but that side of my head puts out 400 watts at 4 ohms (the two 8 ohm mids combined). Just be careful with the output to them from the amp. I have yet to push them too hard and there is no way I'm even coming close to putting even 100 watts into them at even very high volume. Mids and highs don't require much power anyway, so just keep the output from the amp driving them down. If you use an internal crossover you shouldn't need to worry about it.

My BP102's can handle 200 watts each (400 per cab) and I know I'm not driving them with anywhere near that much (even when I use only the one cab at 2 ohms) and they still get pretty damn loud. Just because you have power doesn't mean it's always getting used to the max. In fact most amps aren't putting out all that much relative to what they are capable of.

I think the BP102's are the best tens for low end, but only when matched with a dedicated mid because there is a dropoff above 500Hz.
 
#30
BP102's can handle lows like nobody's business, not your "typical" 10. OP put your mid in a sealed box. Porting doesn't get you anything above about 200hz, they'll be crossed higher than that even if you cross 'em low.
 
#31
washburn_it said:
PS: I attached the B&C 10NW64-16 datasheet
Click to expand...

On paper the 10NW64 looks very promising. Some time ago I was hoping to develop a high-output compact cab using the 8-ohm 10NW64, but the actual measured parameters were too far off of the factory specs for me to proceed. This is the only B&C driver I've had that problem with, but if you go with either version of the 10NW64 I'd suggest clarifying your right to return it to your dealer if the measured parameters are seriously out of spec.
 
#32
OP, where are you? Your fallback is the metric system so I'm going to go ahead and assume you're not in the U.S. Basic principles apply everywhere no matter how you measure them but things like speaker suggestions, etc., especially in terms of availability/affordability vs. performance can vary greatly. They have to get across the ocean while dodging certain political borders somehow.
 
#33
I live close to Florence, Tuscany --> Italy.
Before coming here to ask for suggestion I had a look to several "non-italian" speakers producers (Eminence, Celestion,
Beyma, Dayton Audio, Monacor etc) and each one of them have an european or even italian reseller so the same speaker that I can buy in the US, for instance, I can find it also in Italy.
Except for Celestion, which bass speakers aren't imported but only those for guitars.
www.djstools.com (an italian reseller) has a lot of Eminence speakers in its catalogue.
Legend BP102-4 are sold at 78 Euro (about US $104) and the Alpha6 at 40 Euro (about $54).
Producers don't declare if T/S parameters for the italian or european market are different from those published in their official websites so I assumed that they are the same everywhere.

I calculated a 5 liters sealed enclosure for the Alpha6 and the crossover will be external (into a small box) so if I have to modify it I won't need to open and close the cab everytime I have to do it.

if the measured parameters are seriously out of spec.
Click to expand...

How can I verify T/S parameters without having a professional instrumentation?

Regards,

Roberto
 
#37
I started to draw the frontal panel with Autocad and I had to increase the height to fit 10" speakers, the "inner box" for the Alpha6 and the reflex ports (see the image).



I was wondering...which is the difference to put the reflex ports in the frontal panel or in the bottom panel ("downfiring") ?

Regards,

Roberto
 

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#40
I have built a single, ported, 30 litre enclosure using the Peerless XLS10, with fantastic results. I love the pure deep bass response of a true sub bass driver. The cone excursion is massive and the low end response almost without equal for the price. I built it as a portable unit to go with my five string bass and it really does justice to the low B. It is rated at 300 watts. I assume two of these in a 60 litre box would be awesome!
 

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