Spector content: Haz Lab 9V versus Tone Pump

[ThisBass]

btw, if you prefer all of the knobs (vol, bass, treble) maxed out then it may happen that the Haz Lab saturates the signal (randomly) at some content due to its highish output level
If that's the sound goal you are after then it may be worthwile to spend a couple of hundreds of bugs to get a slightly saturated solid state sound performance.

 

[Rnr..........4]

My NS4CRFM is loaded with the EMG BTS which provides a very similar sound performance vers Haz Lab and all of its clones.

In a german speaking forum we did a couple of LT-Spice simulations of the OEM Haz schematic vers EMG BTS.
The sound performance deviations are quite small, nothing to talk home about.
I did run the sound samples for fellows so I think its not a good idea to upload the sound files to TB

In real practice its just the same appearance. I have got two spectors which are loaded with different preamps. The noticable sound performance deviation between the two bass guitars is NOT caused by the loaded preamp.

Explained in different words. If your CR spector is already loaded with the EMG BTS you won't get tons of additional performance with the Haz Lab. Nope, the Haz Lab on its own does not bring you as "close as possible" to the USA made instruments.
CR made spectors come with a different fretboard which may be the main reason for different sound of USA made spectors vers CR made instruments

Well I have a Spector NS2A with no active. All passive (Seymour Duncan Basslines) but thinking of selling it as it's not really a Spector without the tone pump feature.

 

[somebrains]

Well I have a Spector NS2A with no active. All passive (Seymour Duncan Basslines) but thinking of selling it as it's not really a Spector without the tone pump feature.

Just add a preamp then.
It’s not like Spector hasn’t gone thru a few otptions over the years.
The tone pump is arguably the worst of them all.

Stock ns2a passive pickups sucked, but everyone likes the the khaz.
I pulled my active emgs for a GZR set, which was the wrong move.
I later went with a 3band bc I wanted an active/passive option and a blend instead of VV
My khaz is sitting on my desk in case I ever pull the 3band out.

 

[cfortner]

Hi,

I own a Spector 5-String, originally with EMG HZ-pickups and passive tonecontrol.

It sounded horroble, so I changed to EMG 40DC and KHAZ.

This couple sounds better, but not really good. And the circuit with 2vol without a panpot sucks...

I will change to an EMG BQC, does anybody know this combination? It seems to be a combination built by Spector.

 

[somebrains]

Hi,

I own a Spector 5-String, originally with EMG HZ-pickups and passive tonecontrol.

It sounded horroble, so I changed to EMG 40DC and KHAZ.

This couple sounds better, but not really good. And the circuit with 2vol without a panpot sucks...

I will change to an EMG BQC, does anybody know this combination? It seems to be a combination built by Spector.

If you like grit obd3 will color your EMGs and give them some depth, if not bqc will work fine.

 

[cfortner]

thanks!

 

[The Rage]

The tone pump is arguably the worst of them all.

Guess it's a matter of taste.

I think it's more a question of pairing pre and pickups, and the sound you're after.
My Spector with P/J emg and tonepump is the best sounding Spector I've tried, even more than the USA NS5XL with DC and 18v HAZ. Super clarity and power. Tonepump with EMG TW is good, but not like the others too.

But truth to be told, I'm not taking in account different woods

 

[Relayer71]

Guess it's a matter of taste.

I think it's more a question of pairing pre and pickups, and the sound you're after.

Totally agree. The Tonepump has such a bad reputation. My guess is it's from the days before the trim control was put in. When I got my Zebra Rebop, the previous owner said it was way too loud and aggressive. Before I got it I looked into it and lowered the gain to a good level.

Aside from that, I was never that thrilled with the sound. It was lacking a little warmth and clarity. Sounded a little dull. It wasn't bad sounding, totally usable, but it just didn't blow me away. I suspect the EMG HZ pickups were to blame because the Tonepump + Dimarzio P on my Euro 77 and the Tonepump + Bartolinis on a recent Euro 4LX sound great to me.

If we're talking wood, maybe it was the Zebra wood which I've read can be a little "midrangey". Possible, combined with the soapbar pick ups. Maybe. My point is there are a lot of variables that go into the sound of an instrument: pickups, pre, body wood, fingerboard wood, construction, strings, playing style/position. Not to mention everyone hears things differently. What blows one person away just blows to another.

 

[Lloydtownsend]

That’s great that these preamps are turned into Quantified numbers, but numbers don’t mean jack.
Any bassist with ears can usually, 9 out of 10 times (I’m looking at you, John Myung) tell when, specifically a Spector is being used.
If you want to call that “nothing magical” ... okay. I’ll wait for you (or anyone) to top the bass sound of Eddie Jackson, mike Starr, Rex brown, Jason Newsted, Doug Wimbish and on and on and on.... it’s not a coincidence that they all used the same “nothing magical” preamp and have those sought after sounds.

 

[The Rage]

While I may agree, I think Rex Brown used tonepump with his USA Spector

 

[bassmanhealy]

While I may agree, I think Rex Brown used tonepump with his USA Spector

 

[bassmanhealy]

Hello I just received a custom jazz bass 4 string with a hazlab pre. and nordy pick ups. Now I want to add a active / passive tone control to it any suggestions? I was leaning towards a bourns 500 k tone pot.

 

[TonyP-]

Hello I just received a custom jazz bass 4 string with a hazlab pre. and nordy pick ups. Now I want to add a active / passive tone control to it any suggestions? I was leaning towards a bourns 500 k tone pot.

How does the pre sound with those pickups?
That sounds like a good combination on paper.

 

[BaZZZZZ]

There is nothing magical happening with the first stage of the Haz Lab.

Basically we have a passive RC LPF at the output of stage 2 that rolls of the response beyond f3 900Hz.
We also do have a HPF Shelf at stage 1 which boosts the response above 900Hz.

Without the stage 1 HPF but stage 2 LPF shelf active the response for a flat bass/treble setting would look like the following
View attachment 3532866

With stage 1 HPF shelf active but stage 2 passive LPF deactive we get the following response
View attachment 3532864


With both HPF and LPF active for a flat EQ setting bass/treble we have got the following total response
View attachment 3532868

Although we have some loss in response of -1.2dB the total response can be regarded as flat response.


In total we have got a boost of treble content at the initial stage 1 but also do have a passive network at the output that compensates the boost and thus provides a flat total response.

This design technique is often used to improve SNR numbers of a circuitry/board.
If proper designed there is no impact (soundwise) on the total "audible" performance of the schematic.
We have to take into account that the haz lab board is quite large (vers a smallish modul like the Tone Pump) that shows rather longish signal traces so I think its not so bad to have an "inaudible" HPF/LPF cicuitry that helps to improve SNR at the output.
Either way, these two filters both in combination are not suited nothing at all to call for any magical Spector growl.

All are very simple! After first stage preamp has GIANT BOOST of treble! If you will try to add 5kHz signal at input of the pre you will get OPamp clipping at first stage after about 1.5 Volts pk-pk... Not bad, yes? EMGs can give 4.5 Vp-p for example... So it is something like distortion which works only with treble frequencies... And in last stage the signal is filtered from unnecessary artifacts and smoothed out. And the whole circuit is designed to work good with a signal of a certain strength. And with a certain ratio of high and low frequencies in the signal. Therefore, the "growl" depends on the attack and the supply voltage.

 

[Smegma]

In a german speaking forum we did a couple of LT-Spice simulations of the OEM Haz schematic vers EMG BTS.

Would you mind giving a link to this?

 

[ThisBass]

After first stage preamp has GIANT BOOST of treble! If you will try to add 5kHz signal at input of the pre you will get OPamp clipping at first stage after about 1.5 Volts pk-pk... Not bad, yes?

Your argumentation does grossly neglict that power density of musical instruments is (aömost always) way more close to pink noise rather than equal to white noise.

If any, then your argumentation might be valid for a power density that was equal to white noise but, power density of a bass guitar signal IS NOT equal to that, by no means.

Therefore, the "growl" depends on the attack and the supply voltage.

As the power density of a bass guitar signal IS NOT related to white noise, thus the hazlab "growl" does NOT depend on the attack and supply voltage.

 

[ThisBass]

Would you mind giving a link to this?

If I remember correctly we did in first instance discuss the frequency plots of Hazlab vers. BTS vers. Tonepump.

One of the members was considering a Hazlab upgrade for his CZ made NS2 bass (tonepump preamp).
He recorded a soundfile with his bass that I did then run through the Hazlab LT-spice simulation, and uploaded the soundfile.
It turned out very clearly that the Hazlab preamp very likely woun't bring the magic growl to it.

In total we did figure that the BTS is a pretty good preamp that fits perfectly to CZ made Spector basses.
It also has turned out that an costy Hazlab upgrade will bring no "magical benefit" or "magic growl" nothing at all to CZ made basses.

Furthermore it also turned out that the "magic growl" of USA made basses has got likely way more to do with the different fretboard (Pau ferro) than with the preamp (Hazlab).

Furthermore it turned out (in the meanwhile) that the BTS seems to be (quite often) a lil' better fit to CZ-basses than the pricy Hazlab.

In the classifieds and also on reverb there are frequently CZ made basses offered that come with an Hazlab upgrade.
Nope, the Hazlab does not bring those basses "as close as possible" to an USA Spector.
If it was that easy to upgrade a CZ made instrument in regards of sound and very close to an USA made instrument, I think those upgraded CZ spectors wouldn't be offered that often for rather cheap.
Personally I think, those upgraded CZ spectors are frequently offered by rather disappointed owners cause the HAZlab upgrade may not have provided the "magical" benefit that was initially expected.

Here you are with the link to the forum where this all was discussed, and still will be discussed, from time to time
~~~Stuart Spector - Homebase~~~

 

[Harper]

ZOMBIE THREAD.

Only bringing this up because I just replaced the Tone Pump in my Euro Wimbish with the LHZ Haz clone and it sounds worlds better. I don't have a USA Spector on hand to do an A/B comparison, but the sound now is much closer to what I hear in my head when I think of the "Spector sound". I'm not going to pretend to be an audio expert, but my ears are not terrible.

Also, the idea that the fretboard material is going to make a bigger tonal difference than the Pre-amp? Ok.....

 

[ThisBass]

ZOMBIE THREAD.

Only bringing this up because I just replaced the Tone Pump in my Euro Wimbish with the LHZ Haz clone and it sounds worlds better.

Properly the Tone Pump is not your cup of tea.

I don't have a USA Spector on hand

I have got one on hand that can bee seen on the pic in my avatar.

to do an A/B comparison,

I did an A/B comparison with my NS4CRFM

but the sound now is much closer to what I hear in my head when I think of the "Spector sound".

My NS4CRFM does sound noticable different versus my USA Spector Bass even when played unplugged

I'm not going to pretend to be an audio expert,

I'm going to pretend I'm an audio expert.

but my ears are not terrible.

From all what I can tell as an very experienced audio engineer, ears can be sometimes very fudging at some content

Also, the idea that the fretboard material is going to make a bigger tonal difference than the Pre-amp? Ok.....

Where did I tell anything about a bigger tonal difference with fretboard material?

 

[Harper]

Where did I tell anything about a bigger tonal difference with fretboard material?

This you?

“USA made Spectors come (almost always) with Pau Ferro or Maple fretboards.
CZ made basses come (almost always) with a Rosewood fretboard.

And indeed that's the main, and likewise essential, difference of my two Spectors.”