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Speed...

#21
Hey JimK, Rocco plays hard so it cant be that bad right?:D
Have you ever seen Gary Willis play though? He is by far the standard for light touch and relaxed playing.

To me it sounded like jaco played lightly on the weather report stuff and his solo album. But that video it seems he is playing VERY hard. I dont see how you can get that snappy sound by playing lightly. I dont really think he was in his prime when he did that video. I have heard some live stuff also where it sounded like he was playing hard and his tone was just plain bad. Bad as in not good. So much midrange it sounded like his speakers were gonna blow up.

That lick you guys are talking about at the end of the Havona solo. Isnt that the same lick at the end of each chorus? I havent listened to it for awhile. Someone needs to trancribe the whole tune. Im sick of seeing just the solo. The whole thing is baaad.

[Edited by theJello on 11-15-2000 at 09:59 AM]
 
#22
I'll confess to never having heard it, but that last measure is a great example of why hand size should be of little concern. I'm sure Chris plays it lightning fast, but that comes with having played the lick over and over a thousand times. Licks like that, at lightning tempos are not uncommon in classical music. Check out the bass parts to any Beethoven symphony, especially the fourth movement of the ninth.

Here's an example of a fingering for that. I don't have my bass handy, but at a glance this is what I think I'd use. The way the fingering gets you up and down the neck, the only place where hand size might be an issue is the perfect fourth from A to the high D on beat 3. 1=index finger, 2= middle finger, 4=pinky, T=thumb.

Play B with 1 on the A string, E with 1 on the D string, F# with 4 on the D, shift up, play B with 1 on the D, C with 2 on the D, E with 1 on the G string, F# with 4 on the G string, shift up, play A with T on on the G, keeping T on the A, play D with 3 on the G string, shift down, placing T
on F# and 2 on A stopping the A on the G string, then you have the F# with T, shift down, play E with 2 on the G, C with 4 on the D, B with 2 on the D, shift down, F# with 4 on the D, E with 1 on the D.

That gets you up and back economically, except for the 4th I mentioned above, the largest space the hand covers is a whole step. I'm sure Chris plays it beautifully, but that part isn't really that hard.
 
#23
Well I can play it slowly, but you mention a few shifts, and at tempo the whole thing goes past in about a second! IF I didn't have a day-job, partner, friends family - a life - and could practice several hours each day, then I'm sure it would seem easy, but I'm not sure that Jaco is that accurate on it, even on the original record.
 
#24
Originally posted by theJello

That lick you guys are talking about at the end of the Havona solo. Isnt that the same lick at the end of each chorus? I havent listened to it for awhile. Someone needs to trancribe the whole tune. Im sick of seeing just the solo. The whole thing is baaad.
Click to expand...
It's in the Sher "Real Book" on page 135 in the C version - I think it would be a cool tune to do, but I'd be nervous every time the 16th note "tag" came up, that I'd mess up - as far as I know Weather Report didn't do this live.

The Jaco solo is both interesting musically and very beautiful on the record, so I'm not surprised it's been transcibed a few times. Christian McBride obviously likes it, as he play it note for note for the first chorus!
 
#25
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
IF I didn't have a day-job, partner, friends family - a life - and could practice several hours each day, then I'm sure it would seem easy
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have a family and a day gig too. I didn't say it's an easy lick, the fingering is obvious, that's all. I just wanted to point out that hand size isn't much of an issue.
As for accuracy, how do you think Chris Mcbride came to play it like he does? Because he worked out a good fingering and played it over and over. With an instrument like the doublebass it's all about accuracy, and accuracy takes time and practice.
 
#26
I was actually only "semi-serious" about the hand-size thing ;) - it just seems a big coincidence that virtually every double bass player I see at my local Jazz club - I go at least once a week - seems to have very long fingers!

But I have sat in on workshops/tutor groups at a Summer School with a female tutor on double bass, who is not much over 5' tall and who is extremely fast and fluent.
 
#27
Well, I have read most of the replys and was fairly disapointed, he said he plays punk. I play punk and found that playing fast is hard, but also lowering your action and haveing "light" fingers doesn't help. Sure doing that you can play fast but its a different fast. You just have to practice. I always make sure that i have all the strings but the string im playing on muted so when the pick is flying it wont create 4 diff. tones. Matt Freeman from Rancid does some nice riffs, but punks an atitude so if you miss a note every now and then throw on a mean face and act like you meant to do it. If you play a bass with the stings close together it might help you move around faster but it makes it harder to find the strings with the pick. So give yourself plenty of room and dont be afraid to play the notes like they're the last note you will ever play. Get into the music. I guess what i am trying to say is that playing punk isnt just playing fast, but playing fast with an attitude.



-cp
 
#28
Originally posted by ChronicPain
Well, I have read most of the replys and was fairly disapointed, he said he plays punk.
-cp
Click to expand...

OH NO HE DIDN'T! All the original post says is :

anyone have any tips on
how to increase my speed?
__________________

If you look in his profile it says - "a band by the name of odd-ball oout...we play whatever we decide to" - there is no mention of any style.

 
#31
Look Bruce I didnt think that u had to be the first poster in order to get some help. If i had have known that I would have made my own thread. Boards to me are an evolving topic where people can pick out what they want and reply to it. I thought it would be easier on the eyes just to put my situation coupled with the other. I appreciate those who helped me as i guess u have to play punk to understand it. I guess Bruce in his twisted way was trying to keep this board old fashioned and he wasnt ready for the invasion of the double poster, regardless i thank you all for your help, and will take the advice to heart.
 
#32
I think you've missed my point here - I was actually defending the right to change the topic direction, in response to "Chronic Pain" (!) who was saying he was disappointed with all the replies because it should have been all about punk. I was simply pointing out to him that he hadn't got the facts straight!

Having said that, I do usually think it helps to have clear headings for topics, but in this case I think it's valid to have a discussion about how to play faster generally and I wouldn't want to stop anyone talking about whatever techniques or ideas they have - my view was that "CP" was saying we should only talk about punk, which was what I was disagreeing with.
 
#33
Mikey, your way out of line.
Bruce did or said nothing wrong.
The guy that started this whole thing basically insulted everyone who replied to this FIRST question. Somehow he assumed all the answers should be in a punk context.
I know nothing of punk. So, are you telling me just because you say something about punk that the thread has now evolved into that and I must answer accordingly?
Hmmm. That makes alot of sense.

[Edited by theJello on 11-16-2000 at 08:53 AM]
 
#34
Back to playing faster. :) Lately I am getting a lot of mileage from playing light touch, moving less. It’s the whole economy of motion thing. I'm still trying like heck to master using my first two fingers and the thumb, but this seems to involve a thinking ahead, and it makes my brain hurt. I am getting faster though. I saw Duck Dunn last summer and he blew me away because his sound was so powerful without hardly moving at all. I guess it is that 'old bull VS the young bull thing'.

I have this to say about playing fast and hard. It's definitely not a bad thing. I think it builds muscles and endurance. In any event it is important to play with a certain amount of bravado making every note sound like you meant it. This has nothing to do with the style.

There is no law saying you can't use both approaches in one tune. It's called dynamics, and can add to the drama within a tune. I do it and have heard it in a lot of great music of various styles.

Setup is key. Unless you tend to screw things up by messing with them, I think it is important to continually modify your setup. My upright is a prime example. When slapping an upright a beginner gets best results with high action. Jazzier lines favor a lower action. What do you do? Both! I think it is important to spend time at either extreme, action and touch wise, to get a feel for the techniques that favor the various methods. It is likely that after some time, your bass ends up with a setup that allows versatility. It helps to have acouple of basses that can be setup differently. Heck, it always helps to have more basses!

jc
 
#35
Bruce first off I apoligize, i hate to start a disagreement with a senior member such as yourself but i misunderstood, and thought u were criticizing me. As for JELLO well, u should have read my post because I said people pick out what they want and reply to it, I never said u have to reply to my post, or that it specifically evolved into a punk discussion, and thats all we should talk about. Im Canadian, so dont confuse it, I believe in equal treatment, and RESPECT peoples opinions to ignore me or respond to me.
 
#39
One thing I found that helped me develop a fluid level of speed, was making sure I was being very strict with the alternation of my fingers, especially when moving between strings. Making sure that I was using the "next" finger in the alternation to cross strings helped me to not only develop a faster style of playing, but also a smoother one as well.
 

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