Split J pickup anyone? Why not?

[Avezzano]

IIRC, there was somebody that developed a split Jazz type pickup. Never saw it on an actual bass, if I am right: maybe I am not? This type of pickup could easily be sort of a... Columbus egg, if I understand it well. I mean: we could have the clearer, larger frequency/amplitude response range of that pickup model coupled with the hum cancelling smart strategy, obtained having the two coils placed in the same spot but wired in the due manner.

(Which is it, btw? Simply the same coil 'winding-versus' for both halves but wired one half in opposite phase against the other half or what?)

 

[Dave W]

Any J pickup that says it’s hum cancelling is likely a split coil.

Why not? Because I like the sound of single coils a lot more and the hum doesn’t bother me at all.

 

[Avezzano]

Any J pickup that says it’s him cancelling is likely a split coil.

Why not? Because I like the sound of single coils a lot more and the hum doesn’t bother me at all.

I was thinking about a side by side coils enclosed in a J form enclosure. Just technically asking: a two stacked coils vs. the traditional single coil J pickup should give the same sound. Shouldn't it?

 

[mongo2]

Bartolini has made a split J pickup for a long time that I've used.

Fender also has a split J pickup I had in my Fender Jazz Deluxe and currently in a DIY J. The Fender has 1 large pole per string instead of 2 smaller poles.

Dimarzio makes a spit J pickup that's very hot with adjustable poles.

I've also used Duncan stacked coil J pickups.

I've never really compared any of them to single coil pickups for tone since I was just happy to be rid of the noise and sound good.

 

[Dave W]

Just technically asking: a two stacked coils vs. the traditional single coil J pickup should give the same sound. Shouldn't it?

I haven’t found that to be the case. The singles have a little more bite and clarity. Not to say the others sound bad in any way.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I was thinking about a side by side coils enclosed in a J form enclosure. Just technically asking: a two stacked coils vs. the traditional single coil J pickup should give the same sound. Shouldn't it?

It doesn't seem likely, even in theory, if not in practice.
Two stacked coils are going to have different electromagnet properties when compared to a single coil.
We know that just adding or removing windings from a coil can affect its sound.
Imagine the total reconfiguration into something physically very different?
It's like man? Who dumped all these steroids in my carrot juice?

 

[Avezzano]

It doesn't seem likely, even in theory, if not in practice.
Two stacked coils are going to have different electromagnet properties when compared to a single coil.
We know that just adding or removing windings from a coil can affect its sound.
Imagine the total reconfiguration into something physically very different?
It's like man? Who dumped all these steroids in my carrot juice?

Anyhow I was talking about a side by side coils. For the stacked coils instead, I see your points. But let's imagine a total of X coils, ok? Now we'll just split the coil in two (X/2 above and X/2 below) connected in the humbucking wiring fashion (coils' versus one in opposite direction of the other or wathever...) and in series: shouldn't it give exactly the same sound/timbre of the sc? Just trying to figure this "angel hair" question... forgive me for this further hassle!

 

[Slater]

Dimarzio Area and Model J
Seymour Duncan Apollo
Lindy Fralin Split Coil
and the rest…

 

[JRA]

there may be something in here if you haven't already checked it out:
Hum cancelling jazz without losing jazz tone?

me: if J pickups don't hum = great. if they don't sound like single coils = oh, well.

 

[Avezzano]

there may be something in here if you haven't already checked it out:
Hum cancelling jazz without losing jazz tone?

me: if J pickups don't hum = great. if they don't sound like single coils = oh, well.

This, thanks, for the link!

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Anyhow I was talking about a side by side coils. For the stacked coils instead, I see your points. But let's imagine a total of X coils, ok? Now we'll just split the coil in two (X/2 above and X/2 below) connected in the humbucking wiring fashion (coils' versus one in opposite direction of the other or wathever...) and in series: shouldn't it give exactly the same sound/timbre of the sc? Just trying to figure this "angel hair" question... forgive me for this further hassle!

First... no hassle as far as as I'm concerned.

And yes my previous response was to your question about stacked vs single.

So to be clear, you want to cut a single coil in half, as in create two windings with half the wire in each coil, do I follow so far?
If that's the case then I still want to go with it not sounding the same as the original full coil pickup.

As I see it, you now have two separate electromagnetic fields that will interact with each other in ways that are different than an equivalent single coil field. And if changing the field changes the sound I would think this would also be the case here, regardless of how the two pickups (their interacting fields) are arranged physically.

So hopefully I got the gist of your question?

 

[Avezzano]

First... no hassle as far as as I'm concerned.

And yes my previous response was to your question about stacked vs single.

So to be clear, you want to cut a single coil in half, as in create two windings with half the wire in each coil, do I follow so far?
If that's the case then I still want to go with it will not sounding the same as the original full coil pickup.

As I see it, you now have two separate electromagnetic fields that will interact with each other in ways that are different than an equivalent single coil field. And if changing the field changes the sound I would think this would also be the case here, regardless of how the two pickups (their interacting fields) are arranged physically.

So hopefully I got the gist of your question?

yes and... no, in the sense that perhaps (perhaps, mind you: I am no scientist!) simply changing the way the second coil is winded around the magnets vs. the first (ONLY to fight the noise hum), does not necessarily mean it is "against", sound wise... and there should be continuity between the two coils lots; ok, thank you!

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

there may be something in here if you haven't already checked it out:
Hum cancelling jazz without losing jazz tone?

me: if J pickups don't hum = great. if they don't sound like single coils = oh, well.

A great link.
It seems though that while it is possible to approach single coil sound in split pickup, there is still no cigar when it's all said and done. And I think you were asking about exact, not close, right?

 

[Avezzano]

A great link.
It seems though that while it is possible to approach single coil sound in split pickup, there is still no cigar when it's all said and done. And I think you were asking about exact, not close, right?

Lots of useful info and videos, there...

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

yes and... no, in the sense that perhaps (perhaps, mind you: I am no scientist!) simply changing the way the second coil is winded around the magnets vs. the first, does not necessarily mean it is "against", sound wise... and there should be continuity between the two coils lots; ok, thank you!

Maybe look at it this way. The single headlight on a motorcycle projects a different light pattern on the read ahead than do two headlights on a car. And even if you placed those two headlights together, or had a two headlight motorcycle. The light, which also happens to be an electromagnetic field just in different parts of the spectrum, will produce different patterns depending on being a single point source or two in close proximity. And yes the light will interact differently, and I think to a lesser extent, but this is only presented as an analog to help visualize that a single field is different from two fields.

 

[Avezzano]

Now I can only... absolutely agree. Thanks for... your patience!

 

[micguy]

Dimarzio has been making a split J pickup since the 70's - I've had a few model J's. They now make 3 versions - the model J, the Area J and the Ultra Jazz. There are others - Nordstrand makes, 'em, Aguilar make 'em, Seymour Duncan make 'em, Fralin makes 'em, Bartolini makes 'em. I think among major pickups manufactures, most of them make some version (or more than one) of a split Jazz pickup.

 

[J Wilson]

There are more than a few of these out there from various builders, and stacked humbucking pickups in a Jazz shell as well.

Tone is very subjective, and ears vary, so you have to decide any difference you hear is a reasonable trade off to eliminate single coil noise, which can be reduced somewhat in a bass that had a less than perfect original preparation with better shielding, etc.

Besides that choice, BE SURE that your new pickups dimensions match the space(s) provided. Stacked Jazz pickups can be noticeably deeper top to bottom, and other pickups dimensions can and do vary just enough to NOT be a direct replacement in a given Jazz, so measure your originals carefully to compare with your replacement choice.

 

[J Wilson]

As an aside:

When talking about Fender instruments and their Squier cousins, the precision and Jazz bass (and essentially all Fender guitars and basses) have been built for over 70 years now by several owners and subcontractors in many different locales in America and offshore from hand to computer/digital production.

So often, the dimensions for a looks-just-like-it bridge or pickup or pickguard or most any part can vary just enough over the years to make replacement or hot-rod parts ALMOST fit, but be 'off' just enough to not be a same-to-same, drop in replacement.

So ALWAYS measure for OG vs. replacement parts.

 

[micguy]

A few notes about side by side J's: there is a "Magnetic valley" on a 4 string version between the D and A strings. Most of the time it's OK, but some folks can hear artifacts from that, and don't get along well with them.

There are also 5 string versions, which can be problematic, for 2 reasons:

1) The magnetic valley is no longer in the middle (it can't be, as you have a string there) - it is offset by half a string spacing. There's one of the 2 rubs - as 5 string basses don't all have the same spacing, getting a pickup with the magnetic valley lined up so you don't hear it is tougher. The tighter the string spacing, the more critical it is that you get this right. I had a bass in my shop recently where this was done well enough that I could live with it, but it was a 19 mm spaced design - I haven't had luck with getting split coil J pickups that work well with my 17.5 mm spaced instruments.

OK, on to the second rub. In a 5 string inline split coil J pickup, there are pole pieces for 2 strings in one of the coils, and pole pieces for 3 strings in the other. 2 does not equal 3 - the coils have different inductances, and different amounts of hum. They don't completely hum cancel (they also won't work well wired in parallel). Compared to a single coil which has 5 sets of pole pieces and no cancellation, 3 minus 2 is 1, which means you have one fifth of the hum of a singe coil. It's certainly better, but if you're used to complete hum cancellation, you don't quite get there with a 5 string split coil J pickup. A pair of them can be designed to completely hum cancel when both are on, so at least in that case, they're never worse than a pair of single coils.