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Splitting a sub gig
- Thread starter drpepper
- Start date
Sounds like a fun night. Two venues. A little more than a normal nights pay and only one set up/ tear down. Enjoy your night.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I would give you half a share, and let you use the other bassists amp so it would be easy for you. But these guys have been taking care of you for a decade - trust they will do right by you.
If I'm the bandleader I'm doing a five-way split and giving one of the subs my pay for the night. That way, each sub gets enough money to make it worth their while.
After all, I was the guy who insisted that there be 2 subs.
(Needless to say, this probably isn't going to happen, though.)
I'm a BL and beyond the money I would hope that your sub (#2) would show up on time. That would be a little unnerving. Money, is always the devil in any game. You are both bailing them out. Is one of you worth more than the other? I would split 50/50 for both subs. To try and break it down 1/3rd to 2/3rds would be a PIA, just split it.
I'd do it. It's a 10 year relationship, and you're helping the band stay in business, which helps you in the long run.
I've learned over the years that every once in a while, you have to play a gig and chalk it up to Farce Majeure. Especially subbing. The other gigs cover the one that went wrong. Even the pro's whom I've talked to will tell stories of gigs that they accepted under less than optimal circumstances. Cost of doing business.
Play your best, have fun, and be supportive of the other bassist.
I've learned over the years that every once in a while, you have to play a gig and chalk it up to Farce Majeure. Especially subbing. The other gigs cover the one that went wrong. Even the pro's whom I've talked to will tell stories of gigs that they accepted under less than optimal circumstances. Cost of doing business.
Play your best, have fun, and be supportive of the other bassist.
I appreciate the input, all. Enlightening stuff. Although I started off feeling that would just take things as they came, I found the prevalence of the "let the sub eat cake" sentiment concerning enough to think, "Wow, anyone might come to that." So, the thread did cause me to reach out tonight, simply posing the question because of the oddness of the circumstances, not a tactic or threat to pull out. Normally, it wouldn't have been a thought but I was sitting at my desk thinking this will make 5 gigs in a week (way above normal for me) and not a single one of them a very good payday...then, hmm come to think of it, I don't know what this one is...
You guys who think a 1/3 of 1/5 split is fair under these circumstances are really tough IMO...I said "no," was lobbied to make something work (which I did), found out on my own that THEY had the time wrong which is the direct cause of my only being available for one set...after that, I tried to bow out again but was dragged back in against my better judgement and self-interest. It's a bit over 45 minutes if traffic is flowing...any significant traffic issue is risking a problem with my other gig that would be entirely on doing this one.
They're not offering me some kind of opportunity. That would be a take it or leave it proposition. Their interest is in finding their best way out of a jam. My interest is in being a good guy and helping them out of the jam even though it's inconvenient for me and I'd rather not. We stopped talking money a while back, they don't play super low paying gigs, so it's never an issue finding out when I see the venmo.
It's really interesting to me where people give no consideration to the facts that I was pled with to do this AND given the wrong time which is what really allowed me to make the decision to play two sets in the first place.
I don't know, it seems to me that a world where that would be considered fair treatment would also be a world where it would be completely okay for me to walk away at any time I choose.
I am close friends with a couple of guys in the band, we hang outside of this. I am friendly with the BL. Again, in our contact, his focus was the jam and mine was helping out. Because of the relationship otherwise and the way things normally go, the money seemed secondary and I felt comfortable that I would be treated fairly as always. But this is an oddball situation where people can clearly differ on what's fair, and that raised a question in my mind.
You guys who think a 1/3 of 1/5 split is fair under these circumstances are really tough IMO...I said "no," was lobbied to make something work (which I did), found out on my own that THEY had the time wrong which is the direct cause of my only being available for one set...after that, I tried to bow out again but was dragged back in against my better judgement and self-interest. It's a bit over 45 minutes if traffic is flowing...any significant traffic issue is risking a problem with my other gig that would be entirely on doing this one.
They're not offering me some kind of opportunity. That would be a take it or leave it proposition. Their interest is in finding their best way out of a jam. My interest is in being a good guy and helping them out of the jam even though it's inconvenient for me and I'd rather not. We stopped talking money a while back, they don't play super low paying gigs, so it's never an issue finding out when I see the venmo.
It's really interesting to me where people give no consideration to the facts that I was pled with to do this AND given the wrong time which is what really allowed me to make the decision to play two sets in the first place.
I don't know, it seems to me that a world where that would be considered fair treatment would also be a world where it would be completely okay for me to walk away at any time I choose.
I am close friends with a couple of guys in the band, we hang outside of this. I am friendly with the BL. Again, in our contact, his focus was the jam and mine was helping out. Because of the relationship otherwise and the way things normally go, the money seemed secondary and I felt comfortable that I would be treated fairly as always. But this is an oddball situation where people can clearly differ on what's fair, and that raised a question in my mind.
Can't say that's a dynamic I have any experience with or have even heard of...and it doesn't sound like much fun. I hope you find different situation.
Woot! on the Balt/Wash corridor
This is getting into vague territory.
If a band uses a few subs, they are basically a pickup band, imv.
Therefore, the slot goes to the preferred option on the night. However, with regularity, the band 'assumes' member identity, at which point they expect to be on every gig, even though that wasnt the remit originally.
If it was a band first, then yep, you should be first call. If it was a pickup band, then turning into a band is likely a hijack by someone, not necessarily the 'BL'...
Difficult to determine motive in that scenario...or even if you can find out who pushed that 'new policy'...
Not an ideal situation, but a band you've been doing this for years... not worth worrying about it. It's one of those times where we find ourselves in a worse deal than we anticipated: sigh, do the drive, do the gig, enjoy what you can, and move on to the next one. I wouldn't worry about the split. If it was a one off, I'd not leave the house without knowing how much I'm getting, but in this case, I'd trust they're not screwing me over. I never care what others get paid.
If I was the BL, I'd start down the following avenue:
The first thing that comes to mind is taking 1 share and split it between the bass players.
Now here's the kicker: Bass player A is better qualified than bass player B. The band can't play important songs with B and therefore need to hire A for the first set.
From the viewpoint of bass player A, there's a lot involved. Driving to the gig although already booked elsewhere, playing for a bit then hastily packing up and heading to the other venue is some un-needed extra hassle, and some extra mileage done by player A, only to help out the band.
For a fair treatment, this should be reflected when the cash is handed out.
The first thing that comes to mind is taking 1 share and split it between the bass players.
Now here's the kicker: Bass player A is better qualified than bass player B. The band can't play important songs with B and therefore need to hire A for the first set.
From the viewpoint of bass player A, there's a lot involved. Driving to the gig although already booked elsewhere, playing for a bit then hastily packing up and heading to the other venue is some un-needed extra hassle, and some extra mileage done by player A, only to help out the band.
For a fair treatment, this should be reflected when the cash is handed out.
We play for free, charge to give up our evening, drive, set up gear and pack it away! Both subs are doing 100% of the work.
The band is in a bind, they need help from both subs so need to take a bit of a hit. If the subs want to work with the band again then they also might need to be flexible.
$1000 split, 5 ways is $200. Sending two players away with $100 or less when they're bailing you out is rude.
6 ways split is $165. Everyone gives up $35 to keep everyone happy.
Subs and BL take $150, everyone else gets 185? OP's probably ok for that for one set. Other sub hasn't learned the material so knows he's $50 down to pay someone else to cover for him. BL can't get anyone else, messed up the times and needs to take the hit to keep players sweet?
BL gives full pay to everyone and takes the hit himself (no pay for BL). Fair if this is a hire/fire band where the BL just pulls in people as needed. His gig, his responsibility. He may be OK with this to keep his business running smoothly.
Personally I'd be OK with any of the last 3 options, if I was on either side of the table. If the BL offered to give up his pay, I'd probably offer some back, but they're all fair depending on the nature of the band. There's even a scenario I could see where both subs get full pay, and band takes the hit (if the band are desperate enough).
If I was offered half pay (or less) I'd not be happy. Though I'd not make too much of a fuss if its a band I'm friends with, that's paid well previous, and is likely to do so again in the future.
The band is in a bind, they need help from both subs so need to take a bit of a hit. If the subs want to work with the band again then they also might need to be flexible.
$1000 split, 5 ways is $200. Sending two players away with $100 or less when they're bailing you out is rude.
6 ways split is $165. Everyone gives up $35 to keep everyone happy.
Subs and BL take $150, everyone else gets 185? OP's probably ok for that for one set. Other sub hasn't learned the material so knows he's $50 down to pay someone else to cover for him. BL can't get anyone else, messed up the times and needs to take the hit to keep players sweet?
BL gives full pay to everyone and takes the hit himself (no pay for BL). Fair if this is a hire/fire band where the BL just pulls in people as needed. His gig, his responsibility. He may be OK with this to keep his business running smoothly.
Personally I'd be OK with any of the last 3 options, if I was on either side of the table. If the BL offered to give up his pay, I'd probably offer some back, but they're all fair depending on the nature of the band. There's even a scenario I could see where both subs get full pay, and band takes the hit (if the band are desperate enough).
If I was offered half pay (or less) I'd not be happy. Though I'd not make too much of a fuss if its a band I'm friends with, that's paid well previous, and is likely to do so again in the future.
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If I’m the BL, I hire one bassist for the night. We skip songs that aren’t known well enough, or the keyboard player left-hand-basses those ones. This switcheroo approach is inviting extra headaches, and the cash splitting mental gymnastics aren’t necessary. But clearly this group doesn’t think too far ahead or they would have known the show’s actual start time when soliciting subs.
If I’m the OP, I help out my buddies, even in the face of their poor judgment regarding gig staffing. I apologize and give the later gig’s BL a heads-up that I may be arriving with minimal time to spare. I worry throughout the whole first set about whether I’ll make the later gig on time with parking close enough and a path to quickly load in and set up. I determine a drop-dead time to leave the first gig and do not stay one minute longer, recognizing that I am risking my reputation with the second band at the later show. I give the first band good-natured crap about this chaos for the foreseeable future.
It sounds like we live in different worlds; I rarely see the bottom end of your expected mentioned pay. I just can't make gigs about money alone. For me, this wouldn't be about the money split. It's more about taking care of myself professionally.
First, I think you were a little nuts to agree to interfering with your other booking at all. I've played two gigs with two bands on the same day, but have had hours between them with plenty of travel and downtime to recuperate and refocus. The thought of doing a rushed tear down so I could jam across town to barely make another gig is pretty crazy.
They shouldn't have booked a gig they can't man. The band I do sub work for checks with me (and his other options) before booking. But, you have ties to these people and were trying to make it work for everyone. While it's not your problem that they can't find another sub, you took one for them. While misguided in my mind, there is a degree of respect due for your loyalty.
But, the minute they changed details, I'd have bailed. For you, maybe it's concerns about the split, but for me, it would've been about being reasonable.
Sounds like you have a great situation with this band. The gigs are nice paying and they reflect that when they pay you. I would do exactly what you are doing. Play the one set, help them out and take whatever cash they give you for it. I sub for bands a good bit and the ones I know we dont even discuss price because I know they will make it worth my time. The bands I don't really know we talk about it when they book me. But usually my side of that discussion sounds more like, "Pay me what you would pay your regular bass guy."
Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
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If i'm asking a sub to hustle his tail off to do two gigs, he's doing me a huge favor. I'd make sure he's paid very well, even if it means extra money out of my pocket. gotta treat people right
If I'm the BL, no one would know what the gig pays, the musicians would only know their rate. You should be getting what you initially agreed upon, regardless of how many sets you're going to play, because the BL screwed up the times. That's on him. If the BL is the kind of guy to split hairs on this, I wouldn't do business with him.
Calebmundy
Supporting Member
- Apr 5, 2007
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I work hard to make my gigs fun, easy, and lucrative. I am never in a place where I would need to call two people, but if I did it would be because of a long term investment-like keeping my gig, or in good graces with a booking agent. I would also want very much to keep my good sub interested in my gig, so I would do my best to get both players up to at least a minimum reasonable expectation. Possibly at my own expense.
