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Stage Volume

Zooski

Zooski

Jul 11, 2006
327
0
Say Yes! to M!ch!gan!
#1
I just got home from what I feel was one of my band's better performances, and I just wanted to share my experience with what happened to whoever wants to read. We normally play too loud. Not anything crazy or anything, but loud enough to get your ears ringing after an hour or so of practice. Our drummer is pretty loud, one guitarist plays through a Fender Hot Rod Delux, the other a Twin Reverb, and I through a Trace Elliot V300h and (usually) a Carvin BR115.

I know that in the past we have used WAY too much stage volume--it always seemed like our amps were fighting eachother on stage. Certain members of the band...cough cough lead guitarist...liked to "accidentally" turn up in volume bit by bit throughout the whole set. For those of you that are not familiar with a the amount of sound coming from a Twin Reverb with the volume past 1:00....its not pleasant, in fact its almost terrifying. Its no surprise that some of our shows turned out to be nightmares.

Tonight we FINALLY made a pact to keep a low stage volume and I cannot tell you how much of a difference it made for us. It was night and day...seriously. Every aspect of the show was better for us. I used to be uncomfortable playing before--constantly searching for my bass in the mix, and turning up higher and higher to cut through. With all of us at reasonable volumes, it was SO much better. Each of our instruments were so clear in the mix...and we could actually hear from the monitors!

So thats my two cents about turning down. It worked for us, so I just wanted to share.
 
#2
Zooski said:
I just got home from what I feel was one of my band's better performances, and I just wanted to share my experience with what happened to whoever wants to read. We normally play too loud. Not anything crazy or anything, but loud enough to get your ears ringing after an hour or so of practice. Our drummer is pretty loud, one guitarist plays through a Fender Hot Rod Delux, the other a Twin Reverb, and I through a Trace Elliot V300h and (usually) a Carvin BR115.

I know that in the past we have used WAY too much stage volume--it always seemed like our amps were fighting eachother on stage. Certain members of the band...cough cough lead guitarist...liked to "accidentally" turn up in volume bit by bit throughout the whole set. For those of you that are not familiar with a the amount of sound coming from a Twin Reverb with the volume past 1:00....its not pleasant, in fact its almost terrifying. Its no surprise that some of our shows turned out to be nightmares.

Tonight we FINALLY made a pact to keep a low stage volume and I cannot tell you how much of a difference it made for us. It was night and day...seriously. Every aspect of the show was better for us. I used to be uncomfortable playing before--constantly searching for my bass in the mix, and turning up higher and higher to cut through. With all of us at reasonable volumes, it was SO much better. Each of our instruments were so clear in the mix...and we could actually hear from the monitors!

So thats my two cents about turning down. It worked for us, so I just wanted to share.
Click to expand...

Agree with everything posted here. Lower stage volume = better listening, tighter playing, better house sound and everyone in a better mood at the end of the night (especially the soundman).
 
#3
Rule of thumb is if everyone just gets as loud to be heard playing with, not over the top, but with the drummer..it's a good mix. What will happen is the drummer ususally plays quiter too so he/she can hear the instruments.
 
#4
Zooski said:
We normally play too loud. Not anything crazy or anything, but loud enough to get your ears ringing after an hour or so of practice.
Click to expand...
I get the impression you're not aware of this, but anytime you experience ringing in your ears following loud noises, that means you've suffered permanent damage to your hearing. It is a cumulative effect that is irreversible and will eventually lead to hearing loss. If you plan on doing this for the rest of your life, you might want to invest in some hearing protection.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
#6
That's the best (meaning only) way to maintain proper stage volume - everyone agree beforehand what their volumes will be and then resist the urge to turn up during the show.

I also highly recommend an SPL meter. It provides you with an objective, rather than subjective way of determining how loud you are individually as well as collectively.



And ditto to what was already said about ringing in the ears = very bad!
 
#8
LOL at fishtx's phone joke...

See what it says in my sig? Everett Hull was right. He started Ampeg, and he was a big proponent of reasonable stage volume that is balanced with everyone else on the bandstand, and he was very much against ridiculous stage volumes. Even if you're using stage volume for instruments, there is just no need to turn up to such ridiculous levels. Balance with the band onstage and the room volume takes care of itself.
 
#9
JimmyM said:
See what it says in my sig? Everett Hull was right. He started Ampeg, and he was a big proponent of reasonable stage volume that is balanced with everyone else on the bandstand, and he was very much against ridiculous stage volumes.
Click to expand...

So, I'm going to go ahead and guess the whole SVT and 2 8x10s thing wasn't Everett Hull's idea...? :hiding:

Not trying to be a smart aleck, but it is ironic...
 
#10
jaywa said:
So, I'm going to go ahead and guess the whole SVT and 2 8x10s thing wasn't Everett Hull's idea...? :hiding:

Not trying to be a smart aleck, but it is ironic...
Click to expand...
Everett Hull was forced out of Ampeg by 67 for the sole reason that they thought he was behind the times. And he was. Jess Oliver said that he helped hide the SVT project in its beginning stage from Hull because he wouldn't have allowed it. But after Hull was forced out, the SVT project was not only allowed but encouraged.

Funny thing is, even though I totally agree with Hull about stage volume, I'm using an SVT again. But I keep the volume way down.
 
#12
There were times in the past when my band played too loud. And the majority of our crowd is 21-40 and drinking. In the last year we have gotten our stage volume down to a comfortable level. If I am not singing and our girl singer is not singing, i can talk to her w/o raising my voice during a guitar lead. We mic only the bass drum. Lead guitar and bass guitar are DI'd. My sig rig is on about 10:00, Lead guitar is a 40 watt tube Fender tweed 112, volume on 3. (or 8:00), rythm guitar is a 50 watt Peavey Classic tube 212 , on 2 (or 7:00) so guess what, no ringing ears, vocals and harmonies are great, music is tight. The crowd loves it. They can dance the night away and still visit with friends in the crowd. And we play regularly for around 250 people.
 
#13
Unfortunately, there's a correlation between the front of house volume and the stage volume. I've played in rock bands where we very tried to keep a lid on our stage volume, and very carefully balanced our on stage sound. Then we played in a big room with a big sound system, and we all had to turn up quite a bit to compete with the rumble from the mains!

As others have said, though, everything in moderation. In my curret band, we have a drummer who is not necessarily loud all of the time, but his range of dynamics is incredible. When he digs in for a fill, he can more than triple his volume. The guitarists use smaller amps and crank them a bit for the tone they want - a Mesa and a Vox AC30. I have all the headroom in the world with my rig, and it seldom needs to go beyond 10o'clock on the master.

We go for the satisfaction of the rock kick in the back, while trying not to be excessive.
 
#14
RDUB said:
Unfortunately, there's a correlation between the front of house volume and the stage volume. I've played in rock bands where we very tried to keep a lid on our stage volume, and very carefully balanced our on stage sound. Then we played in a big room with a big sound system, and we all had to turn up quite a bit to compete with the rumble from the mains!
Click to expand...
You can't compete with the rumble from the mains when you have a big PA in a big room. If you do, you'll just make more loud mud. My strategy, rather than turn up, is to turn down the bass response in the amp and use the amp to hear mids and highs and the PA to hear the low end.
 
#15
+1 to what JimmyM just said. I do this in almost every room we play, get the mids and highs from my amp, the lows from the subs in front of me. If you are trying to hear the lows from your amp instead of the PA, you will not only turn your bass sound into mud, but the entire band will sound that way.
 
#16
jtrow said:
+1 to what JimmyM just said. I do this in almost every room we play, get the mids and highs from my amp, the lows from the subs in front of me. If you are trying to hear the lows from your amp instead of the PA, you will not only turn your bass sound into mud, but the entire band will sound that way.
Click to expand...

+1 to the +1. The only EQ I ever use (live) is to cut the bass.

I am very lucky to be in a band where everybody understands volume. I usually have to ask the lead guitar to turn up a bit at gigs where we provide the PA. And that makes me happy :D
 
#17
seanm said:
+1 to the +1. The only EQ I ever use (live) is to cut the bass.
Click to expand...

Someone very wise on this forum once said it is better to run higher volume off your stage amp with less bass EQ, than vice versa. I have tried that and can tell you it is totally true. In most situations with a PA (indoor venues, at least), you will feel more than enough "thump and boom" on the stage just from that... your stage amp/monitor, then, is just to round out your stage sound with the higher frequencies. This is one reason I am a huge proponent of bass cabinets with 10-inch vs. 15- or 18-inch drivers ... just a lot less inherent "boom factor" to fight with 10s.
 

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