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Staying in the pocket

B

bazcandotcom

Jan 2, 2015
7
0
37
#1
Hi everybody,

I have a problem that should probably be every bass players worst nightmare. I have trouble staying in the groove.

I cant seem to be able to hold even simple grooves for a extended period of time. Too many times I will either be a little bit off on certain beats and I cant seem to develop any sort of consistency. This problem makes me question my use as a bass player and as a musician. I have tried using metronomes, tapping my foot, nodding my head and almost everything but still I cant play ANY groove with 100% confidence that Im not gonna mess up, because I know I will. I have to concentrate so hard in keeping time that I have no capacity to be creative with my lines. Frustration then kicks in and I feel that Im losing joy in playing.

When Im listening to the pros I realize that theyre always in the groove and almost never stray away from the pulse, and they do it so effortlessly!
I feel that all of the top bass players/musicians have almost impeccable time and I wish I knew how they do it.
How does one develop this inner rhythm or is it innate and cannot be taught?

Does anybody have any advice on how to improve because Im seriously thinking of quitting as I feel that if I cant groove I probably have no business trying to be a bass player.

Thanks for reading
 
#4
If you've been trying a while i'm inclined to say you have some sort of unusual natural difficulty in this area

However its not necessarily impossible to overcome, perhaps some experienced instructors might have some ideas

Can you tap your feet in time to beat without a problem?
Have you tried working through a book in standard notation?

Maybe you need to go back to basics with counting and simple rhythms to really get feeling the 'pulse' down
 
#5
You can try playing along to Jam tracks on youtube. There's no bass line, so you can add your own. Keep it REALLY simple. Just listen to the drums, feel'em, and then play very small bass parts that groove along with'em. Doesn't matter if it's a drum machine or a real drummer. Listen to the hats and the kick.

Rinse and repeat. Do that for about 15-30 minutes, every day. More if you can. But it's more important to practice it a little every day, than it is to do it for several hours and then not do it again for a week. That's no good.

You'll also find that ghost notes and pickup notes are your friends when you're grooving. :)
 
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#7
This problem makes me question my use as a bass player and as a musician...Frustration then kicks in and I feel that I'm losing joy in playing.
Click to expand...
Don't give up. The fact that you notice your challenges is evidence of progress. Do not psyche yourself out, just relax and listen.

I cant seem to be able to hold even simple grooves for a extended period of time.
I will either be a little bit off on certain beats and I cant seem to develop any sort of consistency.
Click to expand...
It is more important to be able to mess up and continue than to be mistake free. Do not psyche yourself out, just relax and listen.

I cant play ANY groove with 100% confidence that I'm not gonna mess up, because I know I will.
Click to expand...
Even pros makes mistakes . They just have learned to notice, and recover more smoothly and quickly. Do not psyche yourself out, just relax and listen.

I have to concentrate so hard in keeping time that I have no capacity to be creative with my lines.
Click to expand...
Separate accurate tempo practice from practicing a groove. One will inform the other naturally.
Do not psyche yourself out, just relax and listen.

How does one develop this inner rhythm or is it innate and cannot be taught?
Click to expand...
It is not innate, that is magical thinking. It takes time, effort, and practice. Do not psyche yourself out, just relax and listen.

Bedsides my repetitive theme, I would suggest deepening your knowledge of the 16th note subdivision patterns. A groove that you can;t easily and accurately reproduce is likely one that you are not accurately hearing to begin with. You should be able to identify which of the 16 subdivisions each not you pluck falls on. There must be no guessing or choosing when to pluck by "feel" alone. For this , reading / writing notation is invaluable.

Anthony Wellington explains the subdivisions well:
 
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#8
Thanks for all the advice guys.

The big issue for me is really trying to maintain the consistency. For example I could play a groove for 32 bars and most of the time there would be at least a few mess ups where I would be out of sync timing wise. I think it could be a concentration issue but then again I want to be able to feel rhythm effortlessly in other words not 'concentrate' so much while playing on the bass. It really has been a big problem for me.
 
#9
Almost everyone has good rhythm. Very few people walk out of tempo. Holding a groove just means knowing what the groove should sound like - listen to a lot of recordings - and having the musical technique to get to the note EXACTLY at the time you need to. Any hesitation will mess up the time. Having to think about where the note is on the neck or being distracted will be the sure death of any groove.

Play this. A major scale on eight notes. Play them straight, then play them swing style. How much difference in timing is there in the notes you changed to get swing style? Yet almost anyone can hear a difference.

Know the neck. Know it really well so you don't have to think about where to go for the next note. Do everything you can to increase flexibility and speed. Work with a metronome and let it force to to be on (and in) time. Have the technique to play fast or slow in time. Ever notice that it's harder to hold a groove at a slow tempo versus a fast tempo? That's because with a slow tempo there's more space to put the note... yet there is only one correct place and if you don't know where that place is (haven't learned the style) or you get there too soon or too late (technique) you'll mess up the time.

Every great player started out by learning to hold the instrument. Everyone of them played just you do right now, but they continued to work. It takes time, it's a process, not an event. And always remember, when you aren't practicing, someone, somewhere is.
 
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#10
What helped me out is reading music and playing some Motown, I still have a hard time with some rythm as I don't listen to funk music at all and just don't feel it but I have other area where I shine
 
#11
BassChuck said:
Holding a groove just means knowing what the groove should sound like...and having the musical technique to get to the note EXACTLY at the time you need to.
Click to expand...

truth. at a certain degree of technical facility (say, after 4 years of playing),
most mistakes in playing are first mistakes in hearing.

meaning you have got to hear that groove in your head first and foremost
you have to hear it strongly enough, accurately enough, that you can come back to it
and not "drop" it from your inner ear in response to distractions or lack of focus.


Hal Galper explains this 3:19
 
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#12
bazcandotcom said:
Hi everybody,

I have a problem that should probably be every bass players worst nightmare. I have trouble staying in the groove.

I cant seem to be able to hold even simple grooves for a extended period of time. Too many times I will either be a little bit off on certain beats and I cant seem to develop any sort of consistency. This problem makes me question my use as a bass player and as a musician. I have tried using metronomes, tapping my foot, nodding my head and almost everything but still I cant play ANY groove with 100% confidence that Im not gonna mess up, because I know I will. I have to concentrate so hard in keeping time that I have no capacity to be creative with my lines. Frustration then kicks in and I feel that Im losing joy in playing.

When Im listening to the pros I realize that theyre always in the groove and almost never stray away from the pulse, and they do it so effortlessly!
I feel that all of the top bass players/musicians have almost impeccable time and I wish I knew how they do it.
How does one develop this inner rhythm or is it innate and cannot be taught?

Does anybody have any advice on how to improve because Im seriously thinking of quitting as I feel that if I cant groove I probably have no business trying to be a bass player.

Thanks for reading
Click to expand...
Well, I've got the perfect remedy for you. 15 minutes a day of it and you'll feel better groove….garanteed.
 
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#13
Serious question, OP:

Can you dance?

The "Ah-ha!" moment for me, when I feel like I made the transition from a hack to a confidently grooving bassist (I'm kind of over-simplifying; it wasn't literally a moment but something I arrived at over several years) was recognizing that "groove" doesn't just come from your hands or your head. It comes from your entire body.

If your ass doesn't know where the groove is there's no way you'll be able to play it.
 
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#14
Bob_Ross said:
Serious question, OP:

Can you dance?

The "Ah-ha!" moment for me, when I feel like I made the transition from a hack to a confidently grooving bassist (I'm kind of over-simplifying; it wasn't literally a moment but something I arrived at over several years) was recognizing that "groove" doesn't just come from your hands or your head. It comes from your entire body.

If your ass doesn't know where the groove is there's no way you'll be able to play it.
Click to expand...
Beat me to it. If you are dancing then you are grooving. It may be just dancing with your teeth as was Ray Parker Jrs technique. Bobbing your head, tapping your feet etc
 
#15
bazcandotcom said:
Hi everybody,

I have a problem that should probably be every bass players worst nightmare. I have trouble staying in the groove.

I cant seem to be able to hold even simple grooves for a extended period of time. Too many times I will either be a little bit off on certain beats and I cant seem to develop any sort of consistency. This problem makes me question my use as a bass player and as a musician. I have tried using metronomes, tapping my foot, nodding my head and almost everything but still I cant play ANY groove with 100% confidence that Im not gonna mess up, because I know I will. I have to concentrate so hard in keeping time that I have no capacity to be creative with my lines. Frustration then kicks in and I feel that Im losing joy in playing.

When Im listening to the pros I realize that theyre always in the groove and almost never stray away from the pulse, and they do it so effortlessly!
I feel that all of the top bass players/musicians have almost impeccable time and I wish I knew how they do it.
How does one develop this inner rhythm or is it innate and cannot be taught?

Does anybody have any advice on how to improve because Im seriously thinking of quitting as I feel that if I cant groove I probably have no business trying to be a bass player.

Thanks for reading
Click to expand...

Practice by playing along to very simple, repetitive bass lines by bands like AC/DC, U2 and Judas Priest. Just gotta do it over and over and over. Also, are playing in a band currently? Playing with a good drummer helps!
 
#16
What are you focusing on? When I play and am trying to get something down tight, I listen to the bass drum, then hi hat and move on from there. I've even put my foot against the bass drum peg to help feel the beat. Start slow (REALLY slow) - the slower the groove, the easier it is to hear it as soon as you start to drift.
 
#17
First - try the good suggestions above. If no success - please note that musical aptitudes are just that - aptitudes. Some people have 'em and some don't. . Some can draw, some can do math equations in their heads, others can learn languages in a flash.

No one can do anything they want just by practice - we would have a lot more great race car drivers, Picassos and Geddy Lees if that were true. You are born with your aptitudes, just like eye and hair color - they cannot be changed. You only have to watch a single episode of American Idol to know that no amount of wishing and practice can make up for lack of talent.

Rhythm, Rhythm Memory and Finger Dexterity are some of the aptitudes required to play bass well, along with things like Pitch Discrimination and Tonal Memory.

If you do decide to hang it up, keep in mind that there will be other things that you excel at that you haven't found yet.

Yes - I did a lot of work in this area at UCLA while getting my Psych degree.

If you want to learn everything about your own aptitudes and how to use this knowledge to help you succeed - check out www.jocrf.org
 
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#18
If I don't play with conviction and a certain amount of attitude, I can fall out of a groove too.
if for some reason I am not feeling confident, I tend to hold back and choke a little; usually, a poor drummer will be the ticket;)
this is a good reason to be prepared I guess.

this is coming from a bassist who has otherwise 30 years of good rhythm.
 

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