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Steinberger Spirits

#181
I don't know- unless you really like the sound of those other EMGs, I'd stay with the EMG HBCS pickups and skip the pickup routing.

The HBCS pickups are designed to have an EMG P-bass pickup response. I don't know that you'd be able to tell much difference in the sound in those models.
 
#182
But unless I can find a set of IV-V HBs, there's that center dead spot that makes them iffy for a five string. Last I checked (several years back) EMG wasn't accepting IV-V special orders. (I do have an old set of IV-Vs downstairs, but they are pretty beat up.)

I'm thinking 35P5s would be ideal. I just found a source for pickup rings, too.

EDIT: EMG HBs will only work for four string Spirits and original Steinberger fours and narrow fives. They will not work for five string Spirits.
 
#183
Ken- didn't know that the HBCS has a dead spot for 5-strings. That makes sense, when you then think about the string spacing. The 5-string Spirits have the same outside string width from B-string to G-string as the 4-strings. That means the A-string has to be in the exact center of the string spacing, and therefore the pickups. If the pole pieces in the HBCS pickups are grouped like a 4-string P-bass set, then you'd have two pole pieces in the neck pickup where the E and A strings should be. The bridge pickup would have two pole pieces where the D and G strings would be. A string in the dead center would not have a pole piece directly under it.

This would have to be proven with the magnetic paper long used to check pickup pole pieces, or perhaps we could confirm it with EMG tech support. I wonder if Rick Hunt is still working at EMG. I had several email exchanges with him in the early and mid-2000's when I was first considering changing out pickups.

Also, the XT-25's on the Music Zoo are slightly overpriced, IMO, but considering it's one of the only remaining online sources of XT's, it's not bad. They have, as of today (8/8/13), 16 XT-25's left in stock. They also have XT-2's in stock.
 
#184
Michael, I've been working with Rick on this and one other project - he's still there and still supremely helpful.

I had forgotten all about the "IV-V" version HBs where they staggered the poles to move the gap off of dead center until I found my old file folder with upgrade info from almost fifteen years ago. I emailed him to see if they were available - as I said before, the last I heard was that they were not, but I may be pleasantly surprised!

The XT-25 price is a little high, but then again it includes shipping and is tax free. It's a far cry from MusicYo pricing, though! I miss that place...
 
#185
could someone post current pickup replacement 'recommendations' for 4 and 5 string Spirit models, to summarize the mod expertise esp the 5 string as that's what I have.

I looked into this a bit a few months ago, but backed off when my tech guy mentioned routing.
In place of that I ordered flatwounds and halfwounds from Status Graphite and that made a huge difference. I love the tone and feel of the Status half wounds.
I have a 'better' 5 string bass, but this is the one I end up with practicing on the couch every night. I can't break the habit.
 
#186
This isn't a very big thread, so I would suggest going back through it and reading the past postings that mention various pickup models that people have tried in the Spirits.

I don't know that anyone here has a particular favorite pickup choice for Spirits. Pickups are all different, and random players will hear things differently. Also, AFAIK there aren't that many people on Talkbass who've ever owned or cared to own a Spirit, so the knowledge base doesn't span a lot of players.

I don't think the stock EMG Selects sound bad at all. And I do like the sound of the EMG HBCS pickups in my XZ-2. To me, it's just passive vs. active pickups and electronics. The stock passive setup sounds like Fender passive basses on some levels. The active setup sounds more like the classic Steinberger active sound. Both are valid voices for these basses. Those are also the only two pickups I've heard in a Spirit.

I don't have any knowledge of five-string pickup options for Spirits, as the two XZ-25s that I have still have the EMG Selects. Until Ken mentioned that there might be a problem using the HBCS with the 5-string Spirits, I was unaware of any such problem. Hopefully, Ken will have some info from Rick Hunt shortly.

I'm glad to hear Rick is still with EMG. He was/is a terrific guy to work with and provides a lot of information via email.
 
#187
I heard back from Rick at EMG - the IV-V version of the HB is out of production. The normal HB will have string volume issues with the middle string on a fiver.

How I see the EMG pickup upgrade path for Spirits:

For 4 strings - EMG HB series form factor, drops right in.

For 5 strings - either find an old set of "IV-V" marked HBs or do minor routing and install 35 series form factor like 35P5s. EDIT - HB sized pickups will NOT work in a Spirit 5, they are not the correct size. See later posts.
 
#188
HeavyDuty said:
I heard back from Rick at EMG - the IV-V version of the HB is out of production. The normal HB will have string volume issues with the middle string on a fiver.

How I see the EMG pickup upgrade path for Spirits:

For 4 strings - EMG HB series form factor, drops right in.

For 5 strings - either find an old set of "IV-V" marked HBs or do minor routing and install 35 series form factor like 35P5s.
Click to expand...

I had a 2000 ish music yo XZ-5 and i upgraded to EMG 35s. Don't be scared by the term "routing". There are 4 tabs in each of the corners that I was able to sand down using a dremel. These tabs are where the pickup ring attached. The 35 dropped right in, and for aesthetics, i put a pickup ring on afterwards. The route dimensions on mine were exact to the 35, aside from the tabs of course.

If you are careful with your sanding, i bet you wouldn't even need a pickup ring. It looked and sounded great.

As for the battery box, if you plan to run 18V preamp, you will probably need to route, at least on the XT. My XZ had enough room for a BTC and wired for 18V with no routing....

Good Luck!
 
#189
gid, do you remember if removing the tabs also removed all evidence of the ring mounting holes? I'm going to hold off on ordering rings to fit the 35 series until the bass is here (it arrives tomorrow), but I assumed that the old holes would need to be covered up. It doesn't sound like a bad conversion to do at all.

I'm probably going to hold off on doing anything until I've had a chance to see if I can live with the string spacing. I think I still have a set of Status flats around here, I was running them BEAD on my XM at the end and I remember that I kept them.
 
#192
HeavyDuty said:
gid, do you remember if removing the tabs also removed all evidence of the ring mounting holes? I'm going to hold off on ordering rings to fit the 35 series until the bass is here (it arrives tomorrow), but I assumed that the old holes would need to be covered up. It doesn't sound like a bad conversion to do at all.

I'm probably going to hold off on doing anything until I've had a chance to see if I can live with the string spacing. I think I still have a set of Status flats around here, I was running them BEAD on my XM at the end and I remember that I kept them.
Click to expand...

i think i could have gotten away with no pickup rings. You just have to be careful to not over sand and elongate the corners.

When you sand off the tabs, you remove the holes from the original screws if i remember correctly.

Good Luck!
 
#193
The new XT-25 arrived today! My first impressions and observations:

1. Yes, the spacing is tighter than other basses I've played. However, I'm having zero problems playing it fingerstyle; if I played with a pick the tightness would probably be a complete nonissue.

2. I forgot how heavy these are! Fit and finish are very good. IMO the rosewood fretboard looks a little odd against all that piano black, I might dye the FB like gidbass did up in post 167. The serial number suggests 2013 production.

3. They apparently changed the pickup size on these at some point, probably at the same time they switched to no-names from EMG Selects. These pickups are 3" x 1 1/2" but have a longer rout because of the mounting tabs. By way of comparison, EMG HBs are 2 3/4" x 1 1/2" and EMG 35s are 3 1/2" x 1 1/2". Even an old set of IV-V HBs wouldn't work here, the string spread at the pickups is about 2 1/2", HBs are only rated for 2". 35s are rated for 2 1/2".

4. String width measurements are approximately 2 3/8" at the neck pickup, 2 7/16" at the bridge pickup and 2 1/2" at the bridge saddles. These are rough measurements using the wooden ruler I have at the office.

5. The pickup routs are a little longer than 3 1/2", removing the corner blocks that gidbass mentioned will allow the 35s to drop right in. Trim rings will be needed, though - on this one there will be a 1/16" or so gap around the whole pickup.

6. I still want an XP-25, too. ;)
 
#195
Ken, congratulations on the the new XT-25 working out for you.

I do not find the narrow string spacing to be an issue with fingerstyle at all. As you said, picking would be even easier.

Unless something changed, and it certainly might have, the pickups are supposed to be the same from the 4's to the 5's. Hmm. Also I was told by MusicYo back in the day that even the unmarked pickups were EMG Selects. Later on, they started using the ones with the logos printed on them. Could this be incorrect? I do not know.

Since we are dealing with Gibson, and these are relatively inexpensive Korean basses, I can see that some inconsistencies would arise over the production life of these basses, which I am not sure of. I know that the Spirits originally came out sometime in the mid-90's, but am not sure of the date. I'll do some research. At any rate, things changed from the start to the end.

I found the XT-25 I played in 2006 to be very solid and heavy as well.

I'm glad you are liking the XT so far! I may have to dive in on one of the remaining ones before they get away.
 
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#196
HeavyDuty said:
I didn't see anyone in the thread that tried rewiring their Spirit from V-V-T to a more traditional (for Steinberger) Pan-Volume-Tone. I may do this as an interim step before I go all in on active EMGs.

Has anyone done this?
Click to expand...

Yes, I have a Stan Hinesley passive harness in the XT-25 that is volume/blend/varitone. A passive blend control is easy to implement. I've thought about a master volume/blend/Stellartone config.
 
#197
Michael, I don't see any way how W5 Steinbergers could ever have used HBs - they can only handle 2". I think they were only used on narrow 5 models.

Can you measure the covers on one of your fivers? I suspect the size of the pickups used in five string Spirits may have changed over time.
 
#198
HeavyDuty said:
The new XT-25 arrived today! My first impressions and observations:

1. Yes, the spacing is tighter than other basses I've played. However, I'm having zero problems playing it fingerstyle; if I played with a pick the tightness would probably be a complete nonissue.

2. I forgot how heavy these are! Fit and finish are very good. IMO the rosewood fretboard looks a little odd against all that piano black, I might dye the FB like gidbass did up in post 167. The serial number suggests 2013 production.

3. They apparently changed the pickup size on these at some point, probably at the same time they switched to no-names from EMG Selects. These pickups are 3" x 1 1/2" but have a longer rout because of the mounting tabs. By way of comparison, EMG HBs are 2 3/4" x 1 1/2" and EMG 35s are 3 1/2" x 1 1/2". Even an old set of IV-V HBs wouldn't work here, the string spread at the pickups is about 2 1/2", HBs are only rated for 2". 35s are rated for 2 1/2".

4. String width measurements are approximately 2 3/8" at the neck pickup, 2 7/16" at the bridge pickup and 2 1/2" at the bridge saddles. These are rough measurements using the wooden ruler I have at the office.

5. The pickup routs are a little longer than 3 1/2", removing the corner blocks that gidbass mentioned will allow the 35s to drop right in. Trim rings will be needed, though - on this one there will be a 1/16" or so gap around the whole pickup.

6. I still want an XP-25, too. ;)
Click to expand...

Awesome!

I would definitely dye the FB, it was super simple and the results were amazing. I think i paid $7 for the dye on amazon with free shipping.

Well, with the larger routes at least you don't have to do any routing there. I am sure it will look awesome with the pickup rings (mine did).

Good Luck and post picks as you mod!
 
#199
My XZ-25 is from 2002. The XZ-25F is from around 2003. Neither have marked pickups. So it certainly could be that Gibson used a different pickup in the earlier production years, despite what MusicYo told me, and the EMG Selects could be a different size for the more recent fives.
 

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