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Sterling by Music Man SUB Ray4 and Ray5

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#741
ok... I"m a little rusty, it took me a bit longer than I thought :) Just looking at the PCB (I traced the whole preamp as much as I could), the signal goes through 1/2 of the TL062 (top) first (gain stage) after which is goes to the active tone stack, other half of the TL062 (bottom) where the top 3 holes are for treble and the bottom 3 holes are for the bass pot if I'm not mistaken. Since I didn't want to mess with the tone stack, the easiest is prob. to limit the gain in the first gain stage. The gain is mainly achieved by the following resistors "513" (above the TL062) and the resistor next to it coded with "123". These have the following values: 51k and 12k. Since the signal goes to the non-inverting input, the gain is 1 + 51/12 = 5.25 (or about 14db's). If this is too much, the easiest would be to lower the value of the 51k resistor. This can be done in several ways: put another resistor on top of it (can be surface mount) or remove the resistor and replace with a lower value. If you add a 51K resistor parallel to the existing 51k, the total value will be half, so about 25k. This limits the gain to: 1+25.5/12 = 3.125 (or about 9-10 db). You can also remove the 51K resistor and replace with a value between 15-25k depending on how much gain you want. I think it's easier to remove the surface mount resistor (513) and replace with a regular metal film resistor. You may have to drill two small holes and mount the new resistor on the other side of the pcb. Don't leave your soldering iron too long on the pcb as you may damage the resistors, capacitors or opamp chip. I'm still waiting for the UPS man to deliver my bass. Hope this helps those who experience the distorted sound.
 
#743
For those who don't want to make a permanent mod to the preamp, you can install a push-pull volume control which allows you to switch between 'stock' preamp and a -5dB setting, the best of both worlds :). Just solder two leads on the 51k resistor, one of the leads goes to the new 51k resistor and that resistor is soldered to on off the lugs on the push-pull, the other lead goes to the 'other' lug on the push-pull pot. Now you can turn it on/off (basically turns the parallel resistor on/off). Happy soldering!
 
#746
Thanks for you insights JJBASSUB. I used to do surgery on my fenders but I slowly learned to HATE doing it. Keep us posted on your best "fix" for the preamp. I probably won't do the wiring myself but let some else do it for me. However, having a bass players ear in the electronic redo will be very helpful.
Keep up the good work.
 
#747
I thought there might be some kind of resistor type modification that would work for the hot preamp issue but I don't know enough about electronics to figure it out.
I ordered the Bartolini preamp last night that was talked about a few pages back and will probably get it sometime next week and then install it over the weekend.
Switching out the pre isn't the cheapest way to go but I bought the a/p version and like the passive option it'll give me.
 
#750
well, the SBMM mod is more 'work', however the changing the resistor value is a bit more challenging due to the small components. From my understanding (I don't have the bass yet, I just ordered it), the original wiring has the volume control before the preamp, basically you limit the signal going to the preamp, however the preamp still does the same thing. When doing the volume MOD, the old volume pot is replaced by the 25k pot and placed after the preamp, so you control the outgoing signal and not the signal going in. I personally believe the the MOD is better for 'overall' control, however the full signal from the pickup will still go into the preamp and may cause the distorted sound. So basically WITH or WITHOUT MOD, when the volume control is wide open, there's no difference. If the volume control is before the preamp (stock) and let's say it's set to 50% or so, you prob. alter the input impedance, which can alter the sound in some cases. Not sure if this is the case with this bass as I don't have it yet. I think the best solution is to do BOTH mods, volume after the preamp and lower the resistor value.
 
#751
I played my Ray5 at home last night and at church this morning and didn't have much problem with it the way it is. I cut the highs a little and boosted the low a little and used the volume knob to keep from blasting everybody out of their chairs and it seemed fine to me. It won't sound as good as my high-end basses but it works out very well for what it will be used for.
 
#753
odarellmc, as previously mentioned, I don't have mine yet, but it appears to distort in some cases. Turning down the 'output' (I assume you mean volume on the bass) does the following, in the stock position of the volume pot, it limits the signal going to the preamp. This should normally cause the preamp not to distort anymore. However users mentioned that the volume control is not 'great', hence the MOD. This places a new pot after the preamp, so you have better control over the signal going out. This doesn't help with the preamp distortion as the full signal of the pickup goes in the preamp. If you turn down the input on your bass amp, the signal coming from the bass is still the same. So the only way to prevent distortion, is to use the stock volume pot and turn it down, however the control isn't great from what I've read. I'll post my results when I get my bass!
 
#754
JJBASSSUB said:
odarellmc, as previously mentioned, I don't have mine yet, but it appears to distort in some cases. Turning down the 'output' (I assume you mean volume on the bass) does the following, in the stock position of the volume pot, it limits the signal going to the preamp. This should normally cause the preamp not to distort anymore. However users mentioned that the volume control is not 'great', hence the MOD. This places a new pot after the preamp, so you have better control over the signal going out. This doesn't help with the preamp distortion as the full signal of the pickup goes in the preamp. If you turn down the input on your bass amp, the signal coming from the bass is still the same. So the only way to prevent distortion, is to use the stock volume pot and turn it down, however the control isn't great from what I've read. I'll post my results when I get my bass!
Click to expand...

Im looking forward to your post because yes if the preamp is distorting that's an issue. If the volume control doesn't work that's another issue..but this seems not very complicated..turn down the volume so the pre amp doesn't distort. Very simple. ..
 
#755
Some people have said that the volume control adjusts the output quite a bit in the first 1/4 turn then not much the up to full volume. It does seem to do that some but I could hear the difference in volume through the whole range of motion. If I had been able to mess around with this bass and get it under control before I ordered the new pre I would probably just leave it alone and teach the other bass players how to adjust their tone and volume to get a suitable sound like I did today.
If I'm understanding correctly the VR might be best left wired before the pre to keep the signal into it lower so the output won't be as hard. I'm used to playing with the volume all the way up and making adjustments at the amp to get the control I want but this set-up may work differently.
It's easy to go with what you know when it works but sometimes you have to go with the flow.
 
#756
i dont know exactly technical details about the VR mod and my technician did it for me.
but before the mod, every adjustment at the preamp EQ was to much aggressive and hard and overdriven even if the volume knob was low. and uncontrollable and unuseful.
but all of this disappeared after the VR mod. the EQ is great and very useful, and the bass sound great. punchy and cutting. and pretty clean.
the pickup sound very good at flat mod.
 
#757
odarellmc said:
Im having a hard time understanding why the output level is an issue. Cant you just turn down the output/input???
Click to expand...
You can control the output volume but the output itself is overdriven somewhat. It is not a good clean signal. Even when the volume is down, when I'm thumping on that E string, sounds like my speakers want to scream. I get very worried I'm gonna blow something.
 
#758
DWBass said:
You can control the output volume but the output itself is overdriven somewhat. It is not a good clean signal. Even when the volume is down, when I'm thumping on that E string, sounds like my speakers want to scream. I get very worried I'm gonna blow something.
Click to expand...

How thats seems like a defect interesting that ebmm hasn't addressed this issue...
 
#759
odarellmc said:
How thats seems like a defect interesting that ebmm hasn't addressed this issue...
Click to expand...
Dunno. Had my tech do the mod but I can only turn the volume up maybe a 1/4 turn. The gain is set pretty high! Either that or the pickup is the culprit. In any case, I dropped off my bass and the EMG system off to my tech today. Won't have to worry about it anymore.
 
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