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Sting Ray and weak G string, is it the pre-amp?

#21
Thank you everybody for your input! Carefully adjusting the pickup height seems to be crucial, although setting it too close to the string might have the opposite effect, due to excessive magnetic pull.
I should mention that when played acoustically my bass sounds fine, and also in my 30+ years of playing I have and have had many other basses (including a 78 sting ray and a SR5) and never had this issues except for the two EBMM stingrays 4 I owned, so I would rule out my technique too 😄 even if there's always room for improvement of course!
 
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#22
This is what Sterling Ball said back in 2005: "This trait has been around since the first day of the stingray. Its is NOT a byproduct of wood. It is due to the active preamp used on the bass. The output isnt actually lower the response is thinner sounding or not as fat. IT is one of the things you get used to with a Sting Ray or not. Believe it or not it was a complaint of mine in the beginning when I worked with Leo. The emerging slap and the old school country click players loved it. That thin snappin G sound helped the Sr taked off. You can try flats and it will help, but chances are that you will bet used to it by playing ..."


from OP
"So this is typical for a stingray - with this in mind. my g string is a bit higher than my e string due to the alignement of the polepieces with the strings. i pushed my pickup a way more up on the treble site and it worked perfect. it you dont like the thin sounding g - the stingray is not the right bass for you."

Also on EBMM Bass Forum Administration claims it is not a problem with 3 band despite quite a few complaints

I have only owned a Stingray Special 4H and certainly don't have that problem but as with all my Basses always adjust pickup for best perceived equal output of all strings

It is perplexing that some are adamant about weak G and most claim they never had a problem; I have never heard a 'Weak G' in the wild or video demo's even on 2 band; so if those players had perceived problem they found a way around it
 
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#23
jim nolte said:
Legend has it that that Leo designed it that way because of the popularity of slap bass technique in conjunction with a noted pioneer of that style, whose name escapes me at the moment, since the G string is being pulled upwards the idea was to balance the output to the rest of the strings so my guess it is the preamp, never noticed it on my ‘99 SR5 though but I wasn’t doing much slapping on it. Edit: ‘94 SR5, don’t know if has a different preamp than the 4 strings and the bassist was Louis Johnson.
Click to expand...
I hear you ! Weak G?? Let's call it a Balanced for Slap or BFS® feature! If you didn't get the Stingray BFS®, your bass is faulty. Return it to receive a new bass that is proper for slap.
 
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#30
polokojo said:
So, I got a nice deal on a 2008 EBMM Stingray, rosewood board. I got it because I missed my '98 (maple board) that a I sold a while ago.
And of course I quickly noticed that this one too, like the 98, has a weak G string. Except this time I took some time to experiment with different settings on the pre-amp, whereas in the past I just turned the bass all the way up, all the time. The G string volume is much more balanced when the bass knob is only moderately boosted and it speaks clearly and evenly with bass in flat position.
I always thought it was a neck problem, but this neck is different and has different woods than the 98, so now I'm starting to think it has something to do with the 3 band preamp, or at least it's a combination of both. Boosting the bass seems to have a canceling effect on the frequencies the G string needs in order to sing clearly. Bringing the mids up also seems to help.
Your thoughts/experience?
Click to expand...
As an experiment, try the following:

* Set the bass control full CCW, then increase it to no more than 10% of rotation up from full CCW (think of setting a Fender amp knob from 0 to 1, no more than that).
* Do the same with the mid control.
* Set the treble control full CCW.

The output will be very low but the EQ curve will be more or less flat. Make up the gain at the amp (or pedal or what have you). If you increase the bottom end at the preamp or pedal, make sure you do it in the 80-120 Hz range, NOT in the very bottom range like 20-60 or else you'll just be duplicating the behavior of the onboard preamp's bass control.
 
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#31
eniac said:
As an experiment, try the following:

* Set the bass control full CCW, then increase it to no more than 10% of rotation up from full CCW (think of setting a Fender amp knob from 0 to 1, no more than that).
* Do the same with the mid control.
* Set the treble control full CCW.

The output will be very low but the EQ curve will be more or less flat. Make up the gain at the amp (or pedal or what have you). If you increase the bottom end at the preamp or pedal, make sure you do it in the 80-120 Hz range, NOT in the very bottom range like 20-60 or else you'll just be duplicating the behavior of the onboard preamp's bass control.
Click to expand...
I do that when I feel for a song it is absolutely necessary[very few times] to get a generic passive P[ish] tone:) but I did buy my Stingray Special for it's Tone which I very much prefer

I read that 'Trick' in EBMM Forum and tried it; It may have been you who posted?
 
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#32
Geri O said:
I’ve owned only SR5s and 5H Stingrays and for whatever reasons (I suspect I know….), they’ve all had good G strings. We should all be so lucky….🤣🤣 (oh, come on, somebody else as gonna say it!…..😁).

The SR5s were all 3-band preamps and ceramic pups, except for the 2011 I have which came with alnico pups. A little tamer, but still sounded great and had a solid G string tone.

However, I have a buddy with a regular Stingray 4-string bass w/ the 2-band preamp. I replaced the output jack on his bass I few years ago. He has never mentioned the G string, but honestly, if it were my bass, I’d want a little stronger G string action with it. Not a lot, but compared to the SR5 I owned at the time, 4’s G string was a tad down.

BTW, no recordings, no measurements, no documentation, just me and my ears going back and forth.

I dug into playing it and listening closely on a few different platforms and came up with some ideas (as have a few hundred other owners, I’m quite sure), but not being my bass, I didn’t pursue my theories to see which one, if any at all, would result in improvements.

I kinda want to find a 4-string Stingray to have as a test bass for these ideas, but as I play only 5s, there’s not a big need on my end to explore this phenomenon.

BTW, understand this….

Theres no bigger Stingray fan on the planet than me. Read that again.

But I do feel there’s a little something going on here. If anyone thinks I’m wrong or crazy, that’s totally fine. I’ll not engage anyone arguing, debating, or otherwise taking me to task over my thoughts. This is my little project. I may not ever bring it up again. My attitude should be, it’s not my little red wagon and I’m loving my new Stingray Special 5H.
Click to expand...
I’ve never owned a 4 string Stingray just that ‘ 94 SR5 and I agree it was not an issue with that bass, I had other issues, it was an Alder body and weighed around 12 lbs. , and I wasn’t thrilled with the narrow string spacing both at the bridge and neck but the G string was totally even with the other strings.
 
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#33
Nebadon2000 said:
I do that when I feel for a song it is absolutely necessary[very few times] to get a generic passive P[ish] tone:) but I did buy my Stingray Special for it's Tone which I very much prefer

I read that 'Trick' in EBMM Forum and tried it; It may have been you who posted?
Click to expand...
Crikey, I been found out!

Yes, that was me, probably years ago, different username. Can't remember the last time I even visited that site.
 
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#34
jim nolte said:
I’ve never owned a 4 string Stingray just that ‘ 94 SR5 and I agree it was not an issue with that bass, I had other issues, it was an Alder body and weighed around 12 lbs. , and I wasn’t thrilled with the narrow string spacing both at the bridge and neck but the G string was totally even with the other strings.
Click to expand...
Yeah, those bad boys were a chunk, eh….😳😁.

Thankful for the lighter Specials…
 
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#35
Got 5. Sold 1. Lost 1. Pre-EB/2EQ/3EQ. Currently 2 in Estd, 1 in DADG, 1 in CGCF, and 1 in Bstd, so all different string sizes etc. It's not a thing that affects all Stingrays. Some are a little heavier. Some are a little lighter. I have found their QC to be nothing but great. Maybe I'm just lucky.

I know it's a common tale but the concept of a company that survives, in large part, off their bass sales, would engineer in a messed up G string into their premium product line because of slap is crazy. So... like 25-20% of every bass that rolls off the line sucks unless you play slap. And keep that business model for decades. And survive. I don't buy it.
 
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#36
polokojo said:
So, I got a nice deal on a 2008 EBMM Stingray, rosewood board. I got it because I missed my '98 (maple board) that a I sold a while ago.
And of course I quickly noticed that this one too, like the 98, has a weak G string. Except this time I took some time to experiment with different settings on the pre-amp, whereas in the past I just turned the bass all the way up, all the time. The G string volume is much more balanced when the bass knob is only moderately boosted and it speaks clearly and evenly with bass in flat position.
I always thought it was a neck problem, but this neck is different and has different woods than the 98, so now I'm starting to think it has something to do with the 3 band preamp, or at least it's a combination of both. Boosting the bass seems to have a canceling effect on the frequencies the G string needs in order to sing clearly. Bringing the mids up also seems to help.
Your thoughts/experience?
Click to expand...
If the G string still sound weak after tweak the pickup height, you need stick the neo disc magnet on top both G magnet poles.

Find the same diameter to your stock pickup magnet pole , try from 0.5mm, 1mm 1.5mm and 2mm thickness.

I use above disc for flushed magnet poles piece jazz bass pickup to get even string to string output on those jazz bass with 7.25' 9.5' fretboard radius.
 
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#37
It is a setup issue!

Do not mod your pickup.

My Stingray had a weak G. I fixed it with nothing but setup. It is primarily related to the bridge saddle height. Neck relief, pickup height, and string gauge also factor into it. Yes the Stingray design seems to be uniquely susceptible to this problem, but it can be fixed without modding anything.

The key is to gradually adjust the saddle height by the smallest perceptible amount and keep checking it. It will eventually come to life. Once I found it on my bass I never had to worry about it again. If you have dead spots on that string you can help them by sticking a 5g tire balancing weight to the tuning key, right on the clover.
 
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#38
Yes, taking the time to find the sweet spot with the setup did help, thanks! And what really solves the problem (for me) is not boosting the bass, just a very slight mid boost instead and, if needed, eq on the amp. This way the four strings sound even and punchy.
The bass control on this preamp must be used with caution, unless you plan on playing a subby dub line (which usually doesn't require an extensive use of the G string anyway).
 
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#39

adjust the polepieces on pickup

Is this safe to attempt?:
forums.ernieball.com forums.ernieball.com

"This is what Sterling Ball said back in 2005: This trait has been around since the first day of the stingray. Its is NOT a byproduct of wood. It is due to the active preamp used on the bass. The output isnt actually lower the response is thinner sounding or not as fat. IT is one of the things you get used to with a Sting Ray or not. Believe it or not it was a complaint of mine in the beginning when I worked with Leo. The emerging slap and the old school country click players loved it. That thin snappin G sound helped the Sr take off. You can try flats and it will help, but chances are that you will get used to it by playing ..."
 
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#40
polokojo said:
Yes, taking the time to find the sweet spot with the setup did help, thanks! And what really solves the problem (for me) is not boosting the bass, just a very slight mid boost instead and, if needed, eq on the amp. This way the four strings sound even and punchy.
The bass control on this preamp must be used with caution, unless you plan on playing a subby dub line (which usually doesn't require an extensive use of the G string anyway).
Click to expand...

The bass control can seem to overwhelm or mask the G string, but the bass can be dialed in in such a way that the G string is still strong even with the bass control at max. It's not necessarily a given that you have to back down the bass in order to get even string to string volume. The main factor there is again the bridge saddle height.

Something that I feel is important is that Stingrays work best with 100-80-65-45 gauges. That helps in a couple ways, one being that it helps balance the string outputs, and the other being that it makes the bigger strings a little more pliable when playing right over the pickup.

Another tip is that the pickup on a Stingray can be lower than a lot of people expect. I have mine 6/32" from the string on the G side, and 7/32" away from the E string, measured from the plastic cover between the pole pieces to the bottom of the strings. This is primarily to avoid chorusing above the 12th fret, but also has the effect of reducing the boomy, overwhelming dub bass effect of the bass control. Now, I will say that in my experience you can run the bass knob full up at any pickup height and still get a good G string sound if your bridge saddle is dialed in just right. Lowering the pickup isn't a requirement to make it equal in volume. But it does tighten up the low end and decompress the sound as the pickup no longer hits the preamp nearly as hard. You can run the bass full out and it acts more like a low presence than a literal bass control. I actually prefer the pushed sound of the pickup being quite high and close to the strings, but I can't stand the chorusing.
 
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