My Retro 70's G is strong. The person I got it from recorded it for me, playing every note on every fret. I knew it was going to be fantastic and I traded a BFR Fretless for it. I kinda miss that fretless with it's amazing Neo Humbucker. That BFR Neo pickup is next level. But the 2 Band Rertro Preamp & pickup is fantastic. The G is loud and proud.
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Stingray Weak G?
- Thread starter dustinymichaels
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- stingray 4 stingray 4h
On my pre 2018 stingrays I always levelled the pole pieces by pushing the A and D ones down a bit. To me it provides a much more balanced response across all the strings.
My '94 drove me mad. It seemed to record ok but live the G was definitely lacking. I swapped in alnicos but no improvement. I finally replaced with a Lane Poor with bars and an OBP-3 and I never had an issue since. It absolutely sings.
Love that Retro Ray! I like that the strings pass directly over the pole piecesstraight from the saddles.
Note the 2 photos of my '87... The first pick shows the way it was assembled from the factory. See how the string alignment over the poles gets progressively worse from E to G. Second photo - I reassembled it swapping the saddle screws and strings. Much better pole alignment but A&D string spacing was off. I left it this way for several years before I reassembled it back to factory and adjusted the magnets....seems better.
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This 100%.
And this imbalance between E and G strings is part of the Stingray sound. The higher strings and higher notes are brighter / thinner sounding than on a P bass.
That said, the pickup on my Warmoth stingray is adjusted to put more distance between the pickup and E string than between the pickup and the G string. I carefully adjust all my basses for even string to string balance and this is what the 'ray needed.
I think you are essentially correct, but what you mean is that the loss of low frequencies is a problem derived from the relative lower volume of the lower harmonic components. Frequency and Wavelength are basically the same thing here.
OK, I'll go through this one thing at a time:
1) The harmonics on your G string and those on all your other strings are very much the same in terms of where they are relative to the fundamental - it isn't the string construction that makes the G sound weak on a 'Ray - if it was, it would infect every other electric bass type, and....we don't hear that. The difference in string construction also has nothing to do with getting more or less low end (what we're talking about here) - the bigger strings have more windings to try to keep the high frequency harmonics in line (and they do a good job at that - at least for round wounds - flats lose the harmonics so quickly that the fact that they are a bit off doesn't really matter much).
2) You are right that pickup location is important. If you want to fix the low frequency deficiency caused by pickup position (The 'Ray needs this as the pickup is much closer to the bridge), the EQ does need to change for each string to be "correct", but it doesn't need to change for each note you play on a string - the loss of low end is the same for every note on a string in a frequency response sense. As you go up the string, you don't need as much boost to the fundamental, because the fundamental is higher in frequency - a fixed low boost filter (which boosts the fundamentals of the lower notes more than those up the string) would correct the loss of low frequency energy for every note on that string.
Here's a response curve of what happens (on one of my basses) for all 5 strings - each string has it's own curve. There's a lot going on here, and this isn't a 'Ray, A 'Ray has more rolloff on every string due to where the pickup is) but it shows the concept:
What you see is that, at low frequencies, every string has a different rolloff. The G string has the most rolloff, so it needs the most help, but with one filter in the preamp (tuned to help out the lower strings), it doesn't get enough help - it sounds "weak".
3) I've been meaning to do a post explaining the Physics of how pickup locations affect basses (like my post on tone controls), and I have some of the work done, but it's a somewhat involved topic, and figuring out how to present it all in a manner where most folks can understand this is not a quick task - I will get it posted, but it may be a while.
The harmonics thing you mention - it's there on every string instrument. A 51 P bass has a very prominent one - the pickup is at 6.8 inches from the bridge, which is 20% of the string length, so yes, one of the harmonics - if you play it, you can hear it acoustically, but in the electrical output it is not there. This is part of the comb filter response, which is really obvious at a particular frequency - the notches in a comb filter act like that, but the low frequency rolloff of the comb filter is much broader - it affect a lot of notes, but not as much as a notch - it attenuates fundamentals, but they don't go completely away.
Frequency and wavelength are interrelated - not the same thing, but definitely intertwined. On a given string, knowing one means you can derive the other, but move over to the next string, and the equation has to talk into account the tuning difference - sound in air has one velocity, here there are as many velocities as there are strings - a higher string has a higher pitch (even though it's the same length) because it has a higher propagation velocity for waves traveling on it.
Talking/thinking about wavelengths when you are trying to understand what pickup position does to the sound is helpful, because it's the locations of pickup(s) relative to where the harmonics have their nodes and antinodes that gives you the comb filter that is largely responsible for the sounds you're hearing - a given pickup location imparts the same 'wavelength filter" on every string - it may suppress the 5th harmonic of every note played on the 4th fret, for example. Move to a different fret, and a different wavelength filter applies - this is key to understanding why, as you play the same note in different locations, the timbre is different. Showing a frequency response curve is helpful when discussing many topics, but as every string has it's own frequency response, but they all share the same wavelength filter, discussing wavelengths is often more informative in this case.
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2 additional follow up questions:
1) For those of use who are aware of and have played both, did the "Flea" bridge have any effect on this?
2) Which non-MM pickups (and/or preamps) have a better balance?
1) For those of use who are aware of and have played both, did the "Flea" bridge have any effect on this?
2) Which non-MM pickups (and/or preamps) have a better balance?
Smooth_bass88
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I’ve owned 4 EBMM basses. 3 of which had relatively weak G strings. A StingRay classic I played in a music store didn’t have this problem. These were all 90s and early 2000s basses, two with the classic bridge with string mutes. I ended up getting rid of all my StingRays in favor of Laklands and old Fenders.
I hadn't thought of the tension and mass of the string affecting the speed (and therefore the wavelength) of a wave in it. I'd love to read that detailed post about it, but it makes sense!
That is precisely how you tune a string - you adjust it's tension and linear mass density so that the velocity gives you the note you want. If you tune is so it takes 10 milliseconds (One hundreth of a second) for a wave to travel up the length of a string and back down, then the fundamental it's tuned to is 100 Hz. As the wave has to travel there and back, the wavelength of the fundametal of a vibrating string is actually twice its physical length. The harmonics are integer multiples of that - 200 Hz is the octave (which puts a full wavelength on the string), 300 Hz is an octave and a fifth up; that's a wavelength and a half, etc..
Maybe I just don’t understand what people mean when they say Stingrays have a weak G. I think that anyone who has ever held a bass knows that the g string has less “mass” sonically. But isn’t that just all bass guitars period. I have p’s and j’s too and don’t think my rays are weaker. It depends on the song, but I play on the g string as often as the other strings. You have to hit the g spot if you want a call back.
I would look at the tightness of the neck attachment screws and the mounting of the machine heads for any loose screws.
I don't know enough about the preamp to comment on it. The other area I would check is just a bad G string. Try another set of strings.
I don't know enough about the preamp to comment on it. The other area I would check is just a bad G string. Try another set of strings.
For me, I don't think the player is the determinant of the weak G phenomenon. Again, in relation to a sample size of....me, 3/4 of my Stingrays had weak Gs, 1 didn't. This hasn't been problem with my P or Js (2x '60s spacing, 1x 70s spacing w/Barts). Same band, same venue, same (more or less) setlist. Different basses, so the delta in this equation was the bass.
I don't know how folks are eq'ing their amp, and someone mentioned above; it can help or hurt.
I gig every Wednesday as a house bassist, and I primarily use my SR5 as we could be playing anything, no weak G. In IEM, no weak G
When I bring out my SR4's, also no weak G.
I go way back to late 90's with StingRays....no weak G's baack then.
These aren't my primary basses. My main band I use Wals, and I don't eq my amp any differently. Still no weak G's.
I even had Wal build my last custom 4 string to be a single pickup bass in the Musicman position....and guess what? No weak G.
So to me it's how they're using their amps.
I gig every Wednesday as a house bassist, and I primarily use my SR5 as we could be playing anything, no weak G. In IEM, no weak G
When I bring out my SR4's, also no weak G.
I go way back to late 90's with StingRays....no weak G's baack then.
These aren't my primary basses. My main band I use Wals, and I don't eq my amp any differently. Still no weak G's.
I even had Wal build my last custom 4 string to be a single pickup bass in the Musicman position....and guess what? No weak G.
So to me it's how they're using their amps.
On my 2012 Stingray Classic it was definitely noticeable. My 2023 Stingray Special has no issues at all. Both basses wore/wear Ernie Ball Super Slinky roundwounds (45-100) and were set up by very experienced techs.
